King Hazza you obviously have failed to understand my article.
For your information I am an atheist and a hard core religion hating atheist at that. However that doesn't make me evil. While I used to be a supporter of abortion rights, I have in recent years come to see the fallacy in the arguments that support it. They are usually based upon the definition of a human or person as opposed to an animal. This is the big flaw in their reasoning. It is not sentience or self awareness or any other particular human attribute that makes killing a person wrong. The problem with killing humans is that when you kill one you deprive them of the rest of their life. When I look at my beautiful 8 year old daughter and think that her mother could legally have killed her prior to birth, depriving her of the experience of a life and all that it entails, I wonder how I ever felt abortion was a reasonable response to the inconvenience of bearing a child. Human life should be valued because without it we have nothing at all. Just show me one person who wishes they were aborted. As far as euthanasia goes, I don't object to people killing themselves at all, and would support the availability of the means for them to do so peacefully. However, I believe making this a formal, legal, government sanctioned process holds far greater risks than anyone who has commented here realises.

Rhys Jones:
<It is not sentience or self awareness or any other particular human attribute that makes killing a person wrong.>
Presumably then, you're a vegetarian? If, <The problem with killing humans is that when you kill one you deprive them of the rest of their life.> is your objection, and it's not based on "sentience and self awareness", how do you square the preciousness of human life with the staggering loss of life we impose on all other species, which could be reduced merely by curtailing our own birthrate.
The ethical dilemma over abortion is far less troublesome than it is over euthanasia, as the unborn child is only human in potentia, whereas the aged and infirm are fully human and worldly-wise. Attaining full humanity is is a cultural process.
It's fascinating to me that you adopt this stance when you're a <hard core religion hating atheist> I'd like to know more of your philosophy..

Hi Squeers,
I don't think the sentience argument works with animals either because many of the mammals at least are self aware, feel pain and other emotions that we would consider human attributes. The reason I don't feel the same way about animals is because they are "not" human. I don't feel any real obligation toward them other than an obligation not to inflict unnecessary suffering. I simply boils down to them not being of my species. Some will not consider that a relevant distinction but I do. There was a time when it was not considered wrong to kill a member of a different tribe, race or even social class. We have extended our concept of who has a right to life to all people no matter what race, religion or social status they have in recent centuries and decades. I see no moral value in drawing an arbitrary line at 20 weeks gestation for this right to apply. After all, it is the potential life that is important. What is to come, not what has gone before. You can't take someone's past from them, only their future and a foetus has as much potential future as anyone regardless of haw many weeks gestation it is.
Just as an aside, I would not extend this right to an embryo in a Petri dish as this does not have the potential to develop into a human being without someone taking particular active measures such as implanting it into a uterus. I do not feel we have an obligation to take these measures any more than we have an obligation to have as many children as possible.

Hi JL Deland,
I agree- nobody should have the right to force anyone to suffer pain and loss of dignity. Thank you for the link, I’m glad that Lara Giddings is drawing up legislation that would support people's right to die with dignity.
I think that the delay with legislating euthanasia is, that so many in our govt are Christians.

Loudmouth,
Just so that I fully understand, are you saying that you are not against euthanasia as long as it is voluntary- meaning that it is requested by the person?
But this is exactly what the concept of euthanasia comprises within a euthanasia law, doesn’t it?

There is much less chance that there is ‘misuse’ involved when euthanasia is legal. There is not only one doctor involved, but a small medical professional team, who all need to agree and OK the patient’s request. And if one doctor would go beyond the decision of the medical team, s/he can be held accountable. Why would a doctor risk his career?
It would bring these things out in the open, rather than keep them behind closed doors.

Without euthanasia laws, involuntary euthanasia happens randomly if there are no euthanasia laws in place, when patients are given an overdose of morphine. Doctors do get away with this because they have the intention to relieve pain.

Why not just bring it all out in the open, let patients orchestrate their own lives, rather than having to wait until on our death beds and hoping that doctors will make a decision that we are happy with.
We have no choice today of what will happen to us when we near the end of our lives.

Without euthanasia laws in place, we will never have any say about the end of our own lives because there simply are no options available to us.

TBC

Rhys,
I wish you would have separated euthanasia from abortion and not discussed both issues in one thread. Both are involved and comprehensive issues. I totally disagree with you on abortion but I’m chosing to stick to the topic of euthanasia in this discussion because we need euthanasia to be legalised.
But thanks for replying to Squeers about your philosophy, as I was very curious about it, too. Very weird way of thinking, but as I said I will let the abortion discussion go for now.

Can you explain how you would deal with the problem of those patients, who are unable to kill themselves?
There are patients who are bed-ridden, or those who are paralysed, and who would rather be dead sooner than later. They are not able to kill themselves apart from refusing to take food and liquid. But it must be very clear to you from Squeers’ story that this is an utterly cruel, unnecessary way to die.
What do you suggest for these patients?

My mother went to a nursing home because she was losing her faculties, and my father could no longer care for her. She know what was happening to her and said, “I want to die.” If only she could have had her wish granted. For seven years she was in bed in a vegetative state.

The names below are fiction, but it is from a story I published thinking of my mother’s ending. I am Barn Lefko in the story.

“When he was a child she would call attention to the shapely nose, "Isn't it a beautiful nose?" Sometimes she would say that in front of visitors, and little Barn would cringe. The last time he had seen the nose, it was the same chalky colour as the rest of the face. A year ago his cousin from Tyre had called Lefko. Somehow an attendant had let her fall from the bed. Mother landed on her face and broke her nose. The beautiful nose was broken, and there were dark circles under the eyes. She looked more alive than in years. Change. What would be the use of moving her to another nursing home? That could happen anyplace. Golden Hill had the best reputation. The nose was set, the bruises disappeared, and Mother stayed at Golden Hill.

She hadn't worn glasses for so long that the little dents on the sides of the bridge had disappeared. She used to rub her nose so the dents would go away when she took off her glasses. He saw the lashes. They were whiter than the chalky skin. The fine hair was neatly brushed. White sheets, white blanket, chalky skin, silky white hair, pale lips around a black hole, black nostril openings. He saw them as he would those of a dentist. He saw the long white hairs on the chin (if she had been aware of them, she would have been horrified), the slight bulge under the blanket and the arthritic hand clutching a roll of cloth. White and black. For years he had thought of his Mother as already dead.”