Yes,there is a way to deal with "asylum seekers" in a non-discrimitory and humane way.That is to deport all illegal immigrants to their country of origin immediately on arrival in Australia.In very short order that will destroy any expectation in nations which want to export their surplus population that Australia is a convenient dumping ground.To these nations and their people I would say - You broke it,you fix it,in house

Australia is already overpopulated and so is the world.The era of mass emigration is finished - get used to it.

and there is.. a very different way.. which is beginning to show up.

The Taliban stopped Opium production by holding the village elders accountable.

Australia must hold the CREW of any ship ABSOLUTELY accountable, and

-Incarcerate them for LONG sentences.
-Publicize this fact far and wide among Indonesians.
-Destroy the boats. (if any arrive)

Over time...this should deal with the problem.

The other upside of this approach is surprisingly simple.

If...the crew claim they were 'forced' to come... it makes the country shoppers PIRATES in the true sense of the word... and thus excempt from the protection of the UN Convention on refugees.
It also makes Australia exempt from any obligations under international law.

PROBLEM SOLVED.

Thats actually a good idea Al. Although the crew would have to do more than "claim" they were hijacked. Dont we already lock up illegal fishermen from Indonesia and burn their boats? Im suprised if this isnt also happening to people smugglers and their boats.

I am under the belief we already jail these people. Did not the Western Australian Premier say that he would not take anymore, as they were taking up too much space in his jails. Problem with this debate, is the lack of facts given in arguments.

mikk and flo..yep.. that was the thrust of my point.. 'beginning' to...

Hey Mikk.. glad to see we can agree on something :) don't be too harsh on me over other issues.. I'm pretty warm in person ...

Two items of news over the week end,

Another 12 asylum seekers drowned very recently, and the flow of asylum seekers has dropped by 25% following the suspension of processing.

The obvious lessons is that people smuggling is vile, and that a harder line does work.

While there is no desire to punish the asylum seekers, there needs to be a deterrent to this odious trafficking. This needs to consist of making it difficult to gain residence this way, jail the smugglers for long stretches and pursue their masters overseas.

Shadow minister.... *no kidding* :)

We have to unpack where the author is coming from......

Abdul Karim Hekmat is a "human rights advocate" and a youth worker.

I'm beginning to understand this is code for "I've plugged myself into the refugee industry, which receives huge and regular grants from the government tender process".. and caters for all manner of diverse matters such as accomodation (run by private companies in the case of AMES) BUT ..funnily enough..that 'private company' does not show up on the Australian business register..which it SHOULD..!

Soooooo...there is much much more to this whole refugeee/advocasy/accomodation/settlement than meets the eye.

Know anything about a 'company' called "Redback Services" in the private rental accomodation business in Eastern Vic suburbs?

I suspect the author has identified an income stream in the refugee business and feels it might be threatened by turning off the tap :)

Either that or he has half his tribe in transit to Australia on his advice.

Either way.. he is not speaking from a 'sincere heart' in my view.

Excellent work everybody. Good to see some of the Red/green/getup/labour coalition supporters waking up at last. Wasting vast amounts of taxes on detention centres is silly, just deport the boat people ASAP.

Whenever Qantas has an empty outgoing seat, fill it, only detain people until a flight out is available. Question everybody about the "People Smugglers", investigate them thoroughly, prosecute all of them, especially management.

ALGOREisRICH, i like your point about being a "nice person", in person, most of us are of course, but there are so many of "Lenin's useful idiots" out there.

Speaking for myself, i have found that trying to write in a cold, emotionless, manner has more impact.

That's a good point Al. Another simple policy is if a riot breaks out, EVERYONE connected to it is deported.

Also, another idea is to advertise Australia to these countries as a decadent secular nation being overtaken by militant atheists, with highly rigid policing, men kissing on the streets, excellent poppy-detection abilities meaning a trip back to the country of origin and alert the authorities of your conduct, burqa bans (even if that's not true) and a few other things that would frighten away the more pre-modern, hyper-religious nutcases, similar to what many European countries do in the Middle East.

It's great because it costs hardly anything in comparison to actual enforcement, we save money because less even attempt the trip to begin with, and best of all, it actually filters out the people we don't want but encourages the people we SHOULD want to come, and ultimately discriminates on fair grounds of behaviour.

I’m glad to see the renegade Liberal, Georgiou, is leaving politics.

Abdul Hekmat needs to pull his head in. We’ve just had two more soldiers killed in Afghanistan, when the likes of Abdul could be still in Afghanistan fighting for THEIR country, instead of living here, after arriving illegally, and telling Australian governments what they should be doing about “asylum seekers”. We all should be taking umbrage at Abdul’s article. How dare he turn up here illegally and tell us what to do! Particularly as he is not prepared to do anything for Afghanistan.

He says: “It must be stated again that under refugee conventions it is not illegal to cross borders and seek asylum.”

How many borders would that be, Abdul? Australia is the last border, after you people have passed through, or paused in, one or more other countries, where you don’t apply for asylum (you can do that, even in countries which have not signed the Convention), but you destroy all your documents, on the advice of the people smugglers you pay, and then arrive ILLEGALLY in Australian waters to be escorted by the Australian ship your smuggler knows how to contact. You tell stories (again provided by smugglers who know the ropes) and our incompetent, or weak, immigration officials open the gate for you.

Abdul also points out that “… almost all of the about 9,000 TPV holders that arrived between 1999 and 2002 are our fellow citizens now.” Yes. But that’s only because of a shocking ignorance and/ or a deliberate betrayal of the Australian people by its elected politicians. It does not mean that it’s right for those 9,000 people to be here. They just are: that’s all.

......

....

Then he says: “Refugees in the past have contributed to the Australian economy and have filled the skill and labour shortages”. Well, we see a lot of them hanging around in gangs, drawing the dole and being anti-social and hating the country that let them in. But, as for “contributing to the Australian economy and (filling) the skill and labour shortages”, we have orderly immigration for that, and it is the migrants arriving LEGALLY who are filling those roles in the first instance. We don’t just hang around waiting for people to turn up in boats.

I agree that something else needs to done about illegals and people smugglers. The Rudd Government is openly encouraging them to come here; the suspension of processing of Tamils and Afghans is just a sham, as the Tamils and Afghans still coming regularly are aware. Processing will start again, after the next election. All the illegals have to do is wait.

The only way to stop the boats coming is to turn them back, sink them – whatever it takes. Forget the niceties; the rest of the world can’t even stop countries like Iran and North Korea from threatening the world with nuclear weapons. Australia, with politicians with backbone, could do whatever it chose to stop illegals from even sighting the coast of Australia. Not a thing could or would be done about it.

And, it’s going to take longer than Abdul’s 50 years for Australians to forget the money and the lives it has cost Australia in Afghanistan, while our governments have gutlessly allowed able-bodied men and women to come to Australia illegally. Able bodied men and women who should be fighting the Taliban and the corrupt government instead of running away and leaving it to our soldiers

Hazza.. yep...exactly. (re the riot).. but this is the challenge we are facing..... the 'industry' moguls (Labor...Green...Socialist) don't care about either common sense or, for that matter 'law'...

I have been almost dumbstruck to observe supposedly rational people claim the race discrimination law is only for the protection of 'minorities'.... Of course.. I would like to see the 'guidance' which usually accompanies laws, which is referred to by the legal fraternity.
Still.. you cannot argue with the clear declaration of the law that ALL are EQUAL under it.. I don't care WHAT the supposed 'guidance' is.

When people riot they immediately disqualify themselves from any obligation under the UN Convention, which we might otherwise have had for them.

It's not something that is even arguable. It's a simple fact.

Once they manage to get here...oooh..then the feeding frenzy on the public purse begins.. I'm trying to unravel that now as I have time.

I laughed when the article author said "I had friends coming on the same boat whose applications were suspended without reason."

Oooooh YEAH..I'll BET you had 'friends'... as in your whole tribe if you could get away with it.. like hell you will.. not on our watch at least.

2 elections coming up... this is not the time to mince words or waste them.. let's all of us do some door knocking and public activism.

SUGGESTED TOPICS.
= = = = = = = = = = = = =

1/ REFUGEES/ASSYLUM SEEKERS. "We are FULL" & JAIL THE CREWS FOR LIFE

2/ GLOBAL WARMING/CLIMATE CHANGE... "The single greatest conspiracy of the 20th century" (quite apart from the level of truth in it)

I'm providing information in a piecemeal manner about the network of financial scammers -Gore.. Strong..Soros..Zoi, Roy..Labor, Greens and many others..all on the left wing of politics.

The good news is.. people are starting to wake up.

Hear, hear Al.G ,

I go with your comment.

It is just a business and rather very silent...almost to the point of: no fixed address, no fixed name. It is my view that Australia must implement some very hard lines (and stick to them) to those whom are asylum seekers. I often asked "what are they seeking? What is the deal here? Do they seek opportunity for? surly not safety? or is it just a business matter"?

This brings me to the word "settlement" and "conquer". Both of these words can be construed. It appears that they conquer by the means of using 'asylum' to settle in Australia. This makes our 'settlement' Un obligated agreements an easier target and makes a mockery our our honest and easy going kindness. Funny that Japan does not how those type of people. Well if they did they seem to be pretty much into the main culture and steam of the Japanese people.

Its all going along nicely then in comes Leigh with his virulent racism to lower the tone. How predictable. How pathetic.

Leigh,
Great couple of posts -- good to see you back on board.

I loved this bit:

<<He says: “It must be stated again that under refugee conventions it is not illegal to cross borders and seek asylum.”

How many borders would that be, Abdul? Australia is the last border, after you people have passed through, or paused in, one or more other countries, where you don’t apply for asylum>>

LOL

'evening All...

I dunno Mikk, I reckon Leigh articulates well how most people feel, apropos these economic boat people !

Myself, I'm very much a RACIST, and I do get a little weary of people sidestepping issues simply because the may feel apprehensive about speaking their mind. Looking here, there furtively, lest the 'thought police' catch them uttering a word, a phrase, or even possessing a conspiratorially 'look' about them ?

At nearly seventy, I've seen this wonderful country decline into a weak, jingoistic, and quivering mass of hackneyed,and disabused people ?

Controlled by fear of those who seek to destroy the Australian identity.

DON'T THEY GET IT ?

The majority, DO NOT want these 'boat people' to violate our country by entering illegally, any more !

The majority DO WANT these displaced emigres to petition entry to our shores by the legitimate processes.

But with this Labour Government, with Mr Rudd at it's head.....God help us ! Our way of life will be absolutely extirpated.

For those of you who wish to know more of the ramifications of unabated immigration, read the late J. Enoch Powell's - 'Freedom & Reality' (1969). Probably one of the most erudite individuals on these issues I've ever read.

Good night all...Sung Wu.

I think we could start a new tv show , let's call it Border Cleansing.

What we do on each show is a fast paced mix of action and laughs - e attach hidden cameras to refos we send back so that we can see them getting beaten and killed, follow that with sinking of boats full of women and kids , and do big finales like set fire to kids on the beach. Show it after Customs or a similar show.

We will have to get special permission so that we can advertise smokes , along with pre mixed drinks, takeaway foods, talk back shows and old Commodores, that should hit the target demographic.

Maybe we could call the show Underclass: The Golden Shower ?

I mean , I'm not racist, but...

I wonder how long it's going to take for our feminists to wake up to the muslim challenge. They are in a race to take over the country, against the muslim males, but they don't seem to realise it.

Sure they want to kick the males out of power & control everything. What's more they are winning that one easily. The easy going euro male is no match for the viscous feminazi.

Still I don't think they realise, yet, how viscous the muslim male really is. It's going to be a no quarter fight, once the battle is joined, & I have a funny feeling they will loose this one.

They are going to have a long time to regret that they did not join with their own males, in resisting the wave of muslim asylum seekers, both by boat & leagal ways.

No Western Red...you are not 'racist' :) but you are naive. (or have a dark political agenda or..have relatives you want to help get here)

You try to push the 'emotional' button and distort the picture in line with that buttom push attempt.

If we don't control who comes here..and how... we are plain stupid and will be trampled by the rush of half of Afghanistan and 3/4 of Bangladesh, not to mention a 1/3 of India.

So...obviously.. control and predictability are important.

Deterrent is needed because 'reason' is not getting through.

These people come to Australia through many other countries for one reason.. "a better life"

The UN CONVENTION says nothing about "a better life" in regard to refugees.. it does however speak about 'safety' which can be obtained in any one of various contries they have come through to get here.

This is where you do one or more of the following:

1/ Tell me that 'those other countries' are not signatories to the convention.
2/ I'm plain mean and lacking compassion.

You must be a socialist or a Green (same thing).. or a left wing Labour supporter..or a heretic Liberal like Georgio.

Emotion rules sense in your case... sad..tragic.. but fixable...with sufficient therapy (from the rest of us)

As I said.. 'incarcerate the captains and crews' for 10 yrs or so..and publicize it.. pretty soon the flow will dry up.
If they claim 'forced' ..then incarcerate the pirates and the outcome will be the same...

Further to ALGOREisRICH’s comment about our need to get serious about the penalties we impose on people smugglers.

Refugee advocates are usually very big on our need to satisfy various UN Conventions .They are, however, strangely quiet about our commitment to this one :
http://www.uncjin.org/Documents/Conventions/dcatoc/final_documents_2/index.htm

What a miserable little hate fest this thread is. Well said, Western Red - it's not worth seriously responding to this virtual Ku Klux Klan meeting. I mean, Enoch Powell FFS? One clown even manages to bring feminism into it.

Lampooning the haters is probably the only sensible reponse - LOL @ "Border Cleansing".

The previous Liberal Coalition policy worked.

We were not innundated with all these boat loads of economic opportunists parading as refugees.

The present crisis is merely the consequences of people being silly enough to elect a socialist government to power. A socialist government who, like socialist governments before them, promised heaven on earth but delivered only waste and misery.

Maybe the Australian electorate, having been reminded of all the socialist follies of this and previous socialist options, will see sense and choose a liberal coalition government at the next election

who will come and work tirelessly to repair the damage done by socialists across so many areas of the national fabric.

It's always ugly, lancing a boil.

It's even uglier, of course, when everybody leaps in to squeeze their zits at each other.

Altogether a classic thread.

There are of course just a couple of inhibitors to the "final solutions" that we have seen paraded here.

>>... deport all illegal immigrants to their country of origin... Whenever Qantas has an empty outgoing seat, fill it, only detain people until a flight out is available.<<

One or two teensy issues with that.

How do you determine which country, for a start? If I had fled for my life from, say, Sri Lanka, would I tell you my country of origin? I'd just keep saying "New Zealand", wouldn't I?

Or Cuba.

The second problem is that Qantas doesn't go to Kandahar. Or Havana, for that matter. You'd need to persuade another airline to take them on their onward journey, and that ain't gonna happen. We'll see why in a moment.

>>Australia must hold the CREW of any ship ABSOLUTELY accountable...<<

That might be a problem, Boaz. There are some fairly widely recognized, and respected, rules that govern "stowaways, refugees and persons saved at sea".

Check out GARD,

http://www.gard.no/

or the International Maritime Organization

http://www.imo.org/

for details.

One of the problems - which applies equally to lugging them across the world in spare Qantas seats - is that you can't simply dump them at the next port of call.

Another problem, which clearly wouldn't trouble you lot one jot, whit or tittle, is that it is the done thing for a ship at sea to provide aid to another ship in distress, and to take responsibility for the people it saves. Remember Captain Arne Rinnan?

You'd just look the other way, and let them sink, of course.

What a lovely Christian thought, eh. Leave all that hearts-and-flowers stuff to the Samaritans.

After all, it is their choice to become refugees. They have to live with the consequences, and if that means drowning, while Boaz waves at them from his yacht, so be it.

Why is it that a refugee can increase his chance of asylum by engaging the services of criminals?

Why is it that anyone should believe that people smugglers do not select passengers on their ability to pay?

If people risk their lives sailing across treacherous waters in dilapidated and unseaworthy vessels, then what can be said of the judgement of a government that selects such people preferentially to the poor and wretched without the resources to engage the services of people smugglers?

Australian policy should not encourage people to risk their lives and support organised criminals. They could do this by preferentially selecting refugees close to their source.

I'm still struggling with the new threat: the viscous Muslim!!

Oh Lor! Now they're going to suffocate us.

A call to arms my brethren,-arm yourselves with....er, glutinous dissolver.

(Makes frantic dash to cleansing wholesaler).

We should ONLY give out TPV's. Why should we help rich Afghani's take the place of a poor Afghani who has lined up at the UN properly?

It's disgusting and those on the left ought to be ashamed.

And all those people who have drowned trying to get here, how does Rudd sleep at night?

But the main reason we don't want them is we keep seeing what has happened to the areas where Muslims move to in Australia. They quickly become dole capitals, drug dealing, welfare rorting, compensation scouring, racial bashing and rape capitals.

Australians hate racists, and intolerant cultures.

We should only bring cultures here with values of honesty, tolerance, multi-faith, etc.

Muslims are the most intolerant of all.

AND viscous....don't forget viscous.

(You know,- the currency is the currency;-don't get too worked up about it..........................,or were you referring to AFGHAN'S??)

I am now armed with viscous dissolver-AND a foil hat-and I'm ready for 'em.

Fester,

There, I've fixed it for you:

"If people risk their lives sailing across treacherous waters in vessels that are rendered unseaworthy when rescue appears."

A people smuggler isn't going to risk his bacon in a craft that is unlikely to reach the mainland, preferably undetected.

We are under NO OBLIGATION TO TAKE IN ANYONE WHO IS NOT A REFUGEE as defined by the UN. That is a person who requires citizenship of a country, the first one they get to, in order to escape the problems facing them in their own Country.

I have zero time or patience for anyone who, having the money and a dubious claim to being a refugee, tries to bypass the established procedure, thereby dooming some poor sod who has a real need of asylum, who has complied with the rules & regulations, to suffer the consequences of their space being given to some arrogant queue jumping criminal.

The reason for this is simple, we only take in so many asylum seekers, those who push in, effectively dispossess those who do the right thing, by pushing their claim in front of those who comply with the law.

We don't need immigrants that have already shown their utter contempt and disregard of our laws and immigration policy. If such people have already demonstrated their view of our laws (by breaking them with apparent impunity if they are allowed in), why do we want them here?

Send them back to wherever they came from, if we are going to be forced to accept refugees, that is one thing, if we are being forced to accept refugees who break our laws in order to push in, that is another. Our Country is built upon the Rule of Law, if they fail to understand that, or couldn't care less, we don't want them.

The fact these people are being encouraged by the continued success of the procedure to continue dooming others while filling our Country with people who have no intention (from the very outset) of obeying our laws, makes me think we can no longer afford to accept asylum seekers AT ALL. No ifs, no buts, no maybes, until we work out a way to arrange it so the system is no longer abused by the majority of successful applicants, there should be a total halt to our refugee intake.

But the sad thing is that the vessels are unseaworthy. The crime bosses aren't at risk, but they have plenty of takers for a dangerous job that pays well.

I'm disappointed with the hostility shown towards boat people. Would they attempt such a life threatening journey if they knew it would give them less chance of asylum than a refugee camp near their homeland? How would they organise their journey without the help of criminals? What is the cost per refugee for boat people compared with refugees sourced from camps? Could the funds spent taking refugees help more people if otherwise deployed?

We cannot take 'em all, but we can at least do something to improve their safety and try to maximise the benefit for the funds spent.

Why make it easier for the boat people to break our law? If any other prospective citizen breaks our law, they are generally deported as a consequence, these people get preferential treatment as a result of doing so?

For every "Boat Person" who has the money and the wherewithal to make it to Indonesia, there is a person in dire need missing out simply because these criminals jumped the queue with their own dubious stories...

Does anyone ever feel sorry for the unfortunates that are left behind to suffer the consequences of these people's actions? No.

Instead we are continually being told that we, as a nation, are under some positive obligation, to assist these people to better evade/escape the application of both domestic and international law.

I am sorry, I refuse to countenance that. If someone complies with the procedure, then obviously they haven't done so for fun, but because there is a genuine need. THEY DESERVE THE PLACES, not those with the money to get to Indonesia and jam their way into the queue (so their less than convincing claims can be subject to the appellate process all the way to the High Court).

Imagine, there is a long queue, you and your family are in it... At the end of the queue is a safe place, behind you are your tormentors, waiting for an opportunity to commit unspeakable depredations upon you and yours...

You finally get to the end of the queue, to be told that there are only 10 spaces left (but there are only 4 people in front of you and 6 in your family). Then some arrogant, rich criminal, with no "real" reason to seek asylum simply pushes you out of the way in order to take those spaces up for themselves...

How exactly would you feel? I suspect you'd feel pretty hard done by, having gone through the entire process, having waited endlessly, having jumped through all the hoops, to be pushed aside by some arrogant, uncaring criminal, simply because they have the money to do as they please? Now, THAT is UnAustralian

As a CONSTITUTIONALIST my prime concern is that matters (refugees or otherwise) are dealt with within the context of the constitution. My blog http://www.scribd.com/doc/29656433/100409-Kevin-Rudd-PM-Constitutional-Valid-Refugee-Solution I have set out how to appropriately deal with the influx of refugees, and overstayers and unless and until this is put in place both Australians and those coming to Australia seeking a better place to live may be at war and so unduly. Politicians are not there, at least for their own interest, to resolve matters because politics is all about blaming once opponent pretending to be better even if you are worse. We cannot have that people of other countries swamp Australia to their liking and dictate their doctrines, values, customs, traditions, etc, upon Australians as if they were so good they could have stayed where they came from. It is one thing to seek refuge it is another thing to make out Australians may not be sensitive to the plight of others. Every country has its right to protects its borders and any person who seeks refuge must then accept the processes in place while on the other hand Australians must ensure that whom ever is in government operates within the confines of the law. Regretfully politicians are easy to use political slogans to distort the real issues and this must be stopped. As my blog article sets out there is a humane manner to deal with it all and if all Australians including politicians were to adapt this kind of system we will all be better of for it.
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