# david f

1. You state:

"It is important for Jews, like everyone else, to be a free people. Being a free people does not mean domination of other people. It means having equal rights and for others to have equal rights."

What unequal rights do you presently identify in Israel between its Jewish and Arab populations?

2. You state:

"Whether or not there is a Jewish state Jews can be a free people. That is far more important than the state of Israel."

How can Jews be a free people without their own State?

3. Israel was not declared the Jewish National Home by the Balfour Declaration. That was done at the San Remo Conference, the Treaty of Sevres and by the League of Nations when unanimously endorsing the Mandate for Palestine.

4. Your view of Balfour merely underscores the reason why Jews then needed - and still need to have their own national home.

5. Israel continues to be the Jewish National Home for every generation. You have abandoned your support for it. You even admitted you were once a Zionist until you saw the light. It is your right to walk away. Why not just admit it.

6. On what basis do you claim that Israel "does not support equal rights for all its citizens regardless of ethnicity or religion."

7. I agree that Jordan is not Palestine - it is 77% of Palestine. The Arab populations on both sides of the River Jordan comprise one and the same family and ethnic group - as our agreed rabid anti-semite Khaled Amayreh has truthfully acknowledged - but which you do not accept. You can lead a horse to water ...

I wish you well and hope you can deal with reality.

Dear David S,

What I wrote about Balfour is historically accurate. Without the Declaration no Mandate.

Jews are free in the United States. They can marry who they like by civil marriage which doesn't exist in Israel. Progressive or Masorti Jews marry by rabbis they choose rather than having to go through an Orthodox ceremony. That's one example why Jews in the United States and Australia are freer than they are in Israel.

To be a free people one needs full citizenship rights and the right of free association not a state.

Something is not true merely because it suits the purpose of the person who said it. Amayreh and you want to erase the difference between Palestinians and Jordanians. I know some of them, and there is a difference.

I did not support Israel because it was the Jewish National Home but because it was a place of refuge for persecuted Jews. Other countries are now more welcoming to Jews.

In addition I no longer support it because:

I disagree with the idea of promoting aliyah from places where Jews have a good life and are not persecuted. That counters my reason for originally supporting it.

I prefer separation of religion and state.

I saw Zionism as merely another kind of nineteenth ethnic nationalism which I would like to see done with.

Houses of suspected (just suspected not convicted) Palestinian terrorists were demolished. That was punishing a family for something a member of the family was accused of doing. The houses of Yigal Amir who shot Rabin and of Baruch Goldstein who murdered the praying Arabs were not demolished. That is an example of unequal treatment.

I have already written of other inequalities. Look at my past posts.

Zionism was once a good idea giving Jews hope. I think its time has passed, and the main hope now for a better life for Jews and others is to have one state neither Jewish nor Arab but one that makes no distinctions among its citizens on the basis of ethnicity or religion.

Any how. We go round and round.

"I have previously identified you as a rabid Jew hater with whom any type of rational discussion is a waste of time.

You have now confirmed my view and have further exposed yourself as an intellectual cretin."

This was part of a defamatory comment written by David Singer on the 11/06/2010 at 1.19 pm and is obviously not considered to be abuse by the OLO management (yet my comment replying to him in kind was deleted).

Strange justice!

#david f

1. Sorry but the Balfour Declaration had no legal effect. Only the unanimous decision of the 51 countries comprising the League of Nations legally sanctioned the reconstitution of the Jewish National Home in Palestine.

2. You may find Israel's marriage laws objectionable but they apply equally to all its citizens. You confuse freedom to act within the law with the obligation to comply with the law.

3. All Israelis have equal citizenship rights with only one exception to my knowledge - army service.

4. Can you name me a free people with full citizenship rights and the freedom of association that do not live in a State?

5. What is the difference between a Jordanian and a Palestinian?

6. So you supported Israel as a country of refuge. Isn't it still such a country of refuge?

7. Name some other countries that in your opinion are more welcoming to Jews than Israel and the reasons for your view. Is this a reason for wiping Israel off the map?

8 Why shouldn't Jews have the right to return to their homeland if they wish to do so. Is this a reason for wiping Israel off the map?

9 Would you also like to see other ethnic nationalisms such as the 21 Arab Moslem States and the 36 other Moslem States done away with? What about the Vatican and India? What about Iran? Do you ever write about getting rid of such states on a constant basis as you seem to do with Israel?

10 So far as I am aware only the houses of terrorists in the West Bank and Gaza have been demolished. This law is still applicable in the West Bank having been introduced during the time of the Mandate by the British. Your comparison with what happens in Israel is misplaced. That is not the law in Israel.

11. I don't mind you repeating any other inequalities so please list them again.

12. Israel makes no distinctions among its citizens on the basis of ethnicity or religion and I challenge you to name any such distinctions.

D.Singer, in his efforts to brainwash DavidF, has presented Israel as a bastion of democracy and human rights. Of course, this doesn't apply to the Palestinians or Arabs, only to Jews.

The following link will give some idea of how the Jewish/Israeli lobby in the U.S. works and should be read by everyone who is interested in the truth rather than fatuous Israeli propaganda.

http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/2010/06/20106168451670414.html

Dear David S,

The reason we have been discussing Israel rather than other countries is because of your article. Of course I would like to see all ethnic nationalist states done away with, and all nations have separation of religion and state and make no distinctions among their citizenry as to ethnicity and religion.

You don't seem to even read my posts or you would know that. I have said that several times. I see no point in repeating myself and having you ignore what I write.

I am more interested in Jews and other people living well than in where they live. Many of the Israeli Jews who are living in Australia and the US seem to find those countries better for a Jew to live in.

Until next time.