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The Forum > Article Comments > Fighting fires or fighting male hegemony? > Comments

Fighting fires or fighting male hegemony? : Comments

By Dave Baigent, published 26/3/2010

When women enter a workplace where men rule there is often resistance and firefighting is no exception.

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"When a group of men find themselves challenged in this way, when their whole identity is threatened, then one has to suggest that arguments and training for them to see things differently have failed."

When a group of women find themselves challenged in this way, when their whole identity is threatened, then one has to suggest that arguments and training for them to see things differently have failed.
Posted by vanna, Friday, 26 March 2010 10:20:58 PM
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"The fact that some women have managed to become firefighters is a testimony to their perseverance, but for every woman who stays there are a great many more who are forced to leave."

Interesting "fact". Firefighters in the MFB average a career length over 25 years. Most do 30 years. In the last 20 years, I can recall that only 1 or 2 female firefighters have left the organization. At least one left via the route of not returning from maternity leave.
Hardly "More" than the number who have stayed.
Posted by Fidel Trepe, Saturday, 27 March 2010 10:30:22 AM
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This issue isn't about Male hegemony it's about the Union resisting attempts by the MFB to suspend the Equal Opportunity Laws to implement an Affirmative Action plan for Racial, Linguistic and Religious minorities.
Either Racial and Religious equality is an absolute or it isn't.
The Laws are written in neutral language and are designed to level the playing field in and of themselves.
The only reason to suspend the laws is to artificially alter the structure of the MFB for political reasons.
If 92% of the population fits under the classification "White" or "Caucasian" then where's the problem with having a fire Brigade drawn from that population.
Are the MFB suggesting that White Firemen are less likely to do their best to put out fires for non White people, or that non White firemen will do a better job of putting out non White's fires.
Firemen fight fires and attend emergencies, that's usually the only context in which they interact with the community, they're not like Police who have to form complex relationships with the community to do their job effectively.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Saturday, 27 March 2010 12:54:51 PM
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Quite stunned by your article and your take on Australian Fire Services. But will you take note of criticism? Somehow I suspect not.

Throughout, you appear to be saying that firefighters opinions are wrong and you appear bemused by that. I won't suggest that this may be an arrogant approach but others might.

The male firefighters are wrong. The female firefighters are wrong. The Union is wrong. You seem to shake your head that few share your opinion. There could be a message for you in that. Im adding to it

And (amongst other surprising assertions) this........

"Therefore it comes as no surprise when firefighters act to stop women from joining their ranks. The fact that some women have managed to become firefighters is a testimony to their perseverance, but for every woman who stays there are a great many more who are forced to leave."

What a generalist, offensive, thoroughly unsupportable and incorrect rant. Dressing those comments up under the guise of being an academic will give no joy to fellow academics and their reputations.

Condescending comments pepper your article and reputable data all but missing.

This forum only provides for 350 word replies. Believe me, I could use all of those allotted words to tear this article to bits. Perhaps my time would be better spent by pointing out to others the shortcomings evident in Your "Fitting In" study and the utter rubbish you are producing. You are right on one count though. As it says on your website "Academics are not the experts." Credible academics ARE considered experts. The rest produce papers like this.
Posted by Jedda, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 5:47:33 PM
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Only when the fire service truly reflects the diversity of our multicultural society will we achieve equality:
51% women, 10% gay, 5% indigenous, 3% Muslim, 2% Latter-day saints etc.
The fire service should stop the intake of white male hegemonists until balance is restored.
A woman can carry an unconcious person down a smoke-filled stairwell just as well as any man can and so can a Mormon for that matter.
If a woman can water a garden she can hold a fire hose.
Posted by Proxy, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 9:48:32 PM
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It's true that female firefighters at the MFB have tended to stay on rather than leave. They have managed to keep their head down, fit in and toe the line. It is their choice. No one was criticising them for that. I attended the launch of the MFB's Gender Inclusion Action Plan and it is written for both men and women employees and has over 45 actions of which only two are focussed on recruitment using positive action such as in the UK. The reaction that erupted is indicative of a workforce that is riddled with fear and defensiveness. There is no explanation for why such a plan that is in line with government policies and community expectations would attract such opposition. Even the proposed pre-employment training program is quite tame in comparison to other initiatives that exist across the nation. Reading the posts on this website tell me also that there is an active resistance army adamant at keeping people who are different from the dominant culture out.
Posted by Dora, Wednesday, 31 March 2010 8:46:16 AM
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