The issue as to whether children should have contact with (allegedly) abusive parents is a tough one.

There are many things that may influence a childs life, parents with mental illness, siblings with mental illness, the death of a parent or sibling. Bullying is making big news at the moment.

Once upon a time children at risk were pulled out of family homes and stuck in institutions.

I suspect only a small number of toxic families wind up before the family court.

FWIW, I think that Graham acted properly in deleting those posts (including my own) and suspending those users that he did.

When somebody posts a comment that is egregiously offensive, the most appropriate response is to use the 'recommend for deletion' button, rather than flaming back. It may not be as satisfying, but all that flame wars do is to lower the tone of the discussion overall.

We shouldn't feed trolls or respond to baiting by flamers.

@Pynchme: rstuart: You left my deletion out! You need to retally.

Sorry Pynchme, it wasn't personal. I simply got tired of copying and pasting.

But if my omission really offends you, feel free to recommend my post for deletion. It would be a perfectly reasonable course of action in the circumstances.

No JamesH, it is not a tough decision to protect children from abuse and violence, or the potential for such abuse and violence. It is not `alleged' when there are convictions for known paedophiliac conduct (e.g. recent Tasmanian case and many others), or when the Statutory Child Protection agencies state that the abuse is substantiated after their expert investigations.i.e. Doctors. Police, and Social Workers.
The problem is that when `allegations' are made by children and are conveyed to the Court by a parent, the Family Courts do not have the expertise nor the resources to conduct a thorough and competent investigation of such allegations (by their own admission). Therefore such alleagions fail by default because they are `unproven' to the Court's satisfaction when made by a lay person. False allegations by children of abuse are extremely rare.
Mothers have been severely rebuked and reprimanded by Judges, made to pay all Court costs when abuse allegations are unproven, they have had the children removed from their care and placed with the `alleged' abuser. If they have dared refuse to comply with Court ordered contact because they believe their child when their child discloses abuse or there are distinctive marks which can be identified as having been caused by abuse, the mothers have been imprisoned without facing a criminal charges, having a jury decide on the evidence, and in absolute secrecy from public and media scrutiny.

Very harsh punishments indeed for making allegations of child abuse which cannot be proven because of a lack of expertise in Courts. Judges, Family Reporters, and Independent Child Lawyers have little knowledge or expertise in child development, child abuse, and domestic violence and are therefore unsympathetic and unaware of the consequences for children. So it is little wonder that mothers are so terrified to bring allegations of child abuse to the Family Courts, despite considerable and weighty evidence to prove their case.
The risk is too great ~ so the child abuser continues unseen and unchecked.
Such cases are not a small number across Australia but are occurring every week and many cases continue for years.

ChazP, thanks for repeating the new feminist mantra that mothers are terrified of being punished for unproven abuse allegations and that children are being placed with abusive fathers as a result.

"Such cases are not a small number across Australia but are occurring every week"

If you would be so kind to point me to the statistical evidence on this assertion I would greatly appreciate it. And, please, no anecdotes. I have my own store of anecdotes on the alienation of children from their fathers by vindictive mothers.

Gosh looks like lots of action on this thread.

Trouble is you cannot always prove abuse if the family has spent the better part of their lives trying to keep it hidden and private.

Anyone who has ever been raped, bullied or abused in some way knows the greatest fear (other than continuation of the abuse) is the fear of not being believed.

Proof in the form of concrete evidence is not always available, which is why the wish of the children concerned should be paramount in custody cases.

(Maybe we should use polygraphs to separate truth from lies)

As I said many posts ago, these are difficult and complicated issues and the anti-gender focus these debates tend to incidte is not helpful to those who are being abused, nor to decisions about fair child custody arrangements.