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The Forum > Article Comments > Why melting glaciers mean cleaner, cheaper cars > Comments

Why melting glaciers mean cleaner, cheaper cars : Comments

By Paul Gilding, published 18/3/2010

While electric cars had a bad start, we are now on the verge of the breakthrough we’ve been waiting for.

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Strewth! Here we go again the so called 'Tokenists' V 'Luddites/ Corporatists' or some such counter productive name pigeon holed, fixated mind sets. More heat than Light.
So long as we keep thinking inside the box we'll get the inside the box limited answers.
All the technology being spoken about is that which serves current power (elitist) paradigms. i.e. how do we maximise what exists.
Not what is the best solution*S* (Plural)

The 'Luddite/ Corporatists' are *currently* correct the current technology will by and large will simply move the source of pollution and waste.

It is the dominance of this mind set that has us throw billions of $? 'Clean' (sic) coal, Clean safe(sic) Nukes! Both sources are sunset technologies based on finite sources, in effect , move the problem not fix it. The same claim made against the so called 'tokenists'

Why? Conservatism (literal) "lets not up set the status quo".

Meanwhile we ignore other technologies, other (part?) solutions.

We're still thinking in industrial exploitism mentality (the one that arguable got us into this mess). The one that has the terminal gene built into it.
A society built around limited resources and the elitist self-serving notion big is always (sic) best, for what or whom?
We're looking for a big magic bullet solution that, Big business can easily exploit for profit.

As I have said many times the answer clearly lies in devolution and therefore a range of solutions. Instead a compromise for everyone i.e. Specific local logical solutions.

Lets move on, acknowledge the 'real terminal costs' of our society and plan/minimise them where possible. Look at the renewable assets available, including people and act accordingly.
There should be ONE beneficiary ….people. Business is there to serve people not the other way around .
Posted by examinator, Friday, 19 March 2010 11:49:44 AM
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Severin, unless you can do your own pannel work, you need to start with a sound structure, no rust. If it has good paint, that's a plus.

This is not a plan for a "cheep" car, but can be good value.

I bought 2 1980 model cars for a total of $1,300. One was rust free, but had mechanical bits missing. The other was all there, & working OK, but so rusty I was not game to jack it up. 4 months of gentle work, say 8/10 days for a professional I had one rebuilt car, ready for the painter.

After painting I had a lovely car, worth about $5,000 on the market, owing me about $7,000. It is a much nicer car than I could buy new for less than $20,000, & virtually no new emissions had been created.

8 years & 65,000 Km later, I have spent another $1,400 on reupholstering the thing, & have recently refused $11,000 for the car.

Oh, the small, economical [6.3L/100Km] car we bought for my wife, 4 years ago, for $22,000, is now worth, you guessed it, $11,000, & has yet to recoup the emissions generated in it's production.

Why did I not do the same, & restore a nice old car for her, you ask. Well, mainly because I'm a coward. I could not have stood the nagging I would have got if/when the thing inevitably broke down.

Restored car breakdown, my fault, new car breakdown, Mazda's fault. No contest.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 19 March 2010 12:43:39 PM
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Hasbeen

Not too much rust in the body of the Mazda - paint job in great need of restoration. I think your points about the environmental/non-renewable energy that is wasted in production of new cars is very valid. There is no need to rush into electric cars until we have a more supportive infrastructure.

Any more than we need to rush investment into setting up nuclear plants when we could use the same monies for investment into clean renewable technologies.

Back to personal issue, I think I just want a change of car. Will not buy a new one, for previously stated reasons as above, but still think converting a late model to LPG a good compromise.

BTW - did you give any thought to the "too much CO2" issue? It is happening, and we may or may not be able to adapt to climate alteration - I really have no idea. But then I didn't know my home was going to be hit by giant hail-stones a couple of weeks ago - however I do have insurance. Never hurts to be prepared
Posted by Severin, Friday, 19 March 2010 1:02:57 PM
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rpg wrote:
"Personally I'm still waiting for all the new breakthroughs and green jobs we all hear about, where are they?"

In China where else? Does anyone here truly believe all this supposed new green tech was going to be done here?

"President Obama(or comrade KRudd) has often spoken about creating clean-energy jobs in the United States(Australia). But China has shown the political will to do so, said Mr. Pinto, 49, who is also Applied Materials' executive vice president for solar systems and flat-panel displays."

http://finance.yahoo.com/careers-work/article/109107/china-drawing-high-tech-research-from-us%3B_ylt%3DAudt50lwJ7CtOZurIkgfMDK7YWsA%3B_ylu%3DX3oDMTE1Z2U5YzhxBHBvcwM2BHNlYwN0b3BTdG9yaWVzBHNsawNtb3JldXN0ZWNoY28-?sec=topStories&pos=4&asset=&ccode=

Back on topic:
Electric cars are just feel good devices, they actually solve no problems and may even create more.
We need to secure a lasting, efficient, sustainable energy system before electric cars will make any difference. This tech will take decades against the constant resistance of fossil fuel companies and governments really wanting to maintain the status quo.
Posted by RawMustard, Friday, 19 March 2010 2:44:35 PM
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Rpg

'Miracle' answer? They're in use in Europe and the USA already.

Where are these green industries?
China, Europe and to some extent the USA.

Also,
Why is research being P-ssed away if it were researching renewables as opposed to nuclear? Nuclear isn't exactly a cheaper alternative- Every Nuclear plant needs to be custom-designed with considerable safeguards established, a constant feed of resources and personale; PV panels and wind turbines could be mass produced in a factory.

As for the comment about 'or people will start to die who try to produce electricity, it's not like planting flowers mate.';
Care to elaborate?
Posted by King Hazza, Friday, 19 March 2010 4:42:39 PM
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Out of date, Hasbeen? Here is a link to another article showing a comparison of CO2 emissions:

http://www.energytribune.com/articles.cfm?aid=3536

Substantially lower than gasoline, slightly higher than diesel, but less than the two combined. I agree with you that the ev is pointless today. But there is good reason to think that things will change, as the internal combustion engine and coal generated electricity are mature technologies, whereas batteries, renewables and nuclear are developing and have substantial potential. Even if renewables dont challenge coal in the next decade, it is highly likely that fourth generation nuclear reactors will be built, delivering cheaper and cleaner electricity than coal. And the research into batteries currently suggests that much higher storage density and service life is possible.

At over $1000 per KWh of storage for todays ev batterys, it is unsurprising not to see a market. But to think that things wont change would be to believe that the supporting technologies will not evolve. That would be a unique achievement in the history of human endeavour. It is a question of "When", not "If".
Posted by Fester, Saturday, 20 March 2010 12:54:43 PM
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