Severin
We must have posted at the same time as I did not read your newer comments until now.

As you will no doubt remember our previous discussions on this topic, I have been on the decriminilising side of this argument as well, and do understand the good intentions and some of the more valid points of those wishing to legalise.

The argument that we should not legalise/decriminalise other intoxicants/evils is meaningless...as others have pointed out, the actions of the Portuguese Government or the blind eye policy in the Netherlands have not led to significant increases in "illicit" drug use, and the stigma of a criminal record and the repercussions such as diminished employment opportunities are avoided, and the money saved in the policing/legal systems can be used elsewhere.

pelican: "Where have I said smoking is a good thing?"

Nowhere, which is why I didn't claim you said it. You said: "... instead of investigating more into what it is that draws people to drugs?" implying there is some sort of trade off. I used smoking to show there isn't.

But to answer your rhetorical question directly, if you legalised drugs and taxed them, there would be both large savings in enforcement and a huge revenue stream created. The government pouring more money into research is possible under that scenario. It doesn't look likely now.

pelican: "Hysteria and contrived outrage doubting my integrity"

I am targeting the way you are debating the topic.

You say: "I openly claim that it WILL go up", but offer no supporting evidence. If you have supported it in earlier threads a link would be helpful.

Then you say: "I have been around people high on drugs and it is not always fun", which is irrelevant to this debate unless usage goes up. No one here but you thinks usage will go up and you have made no effort to support your claim it will, so it is just irrelevant.

Then you say: "In many criminal cases drug use has led to the committing of serious and not so serious crime including murder". Again irrelevant unless usage went up, and serious crime went up. So another red hearing. And then "There is mounting evidence that drug use causes a variety of mental illnesses in some people genetically predisposed particularly in relation to seemingless harmful drugs like cannabis" .. ditto.

All these red hearings, with no attempt justify the claim they rest on. I am not sure "Hysteria and contrived outrage doubting my integrity" would characterise my attitude. It is more one of annoyance, as you can do better.

pelican: "raising research issues (clearly needed)"

More research is always helpful, but I doubt many here would agree is it is needed (yet alone clearly needed) to justify the move to decriminalisation. If you think it is, support the point by saying where and why.

pelican

How do you explain that tobacco consumption is falling despite cigarettes being widely available (think for sale at every corner store and supermarket)? The sale of tobacco is legal but use is falling, so why would injecting heroin use rise if the sale of heroin were legal?

Do you think that life-long drinkers are going to quit drinking to start injecting heroin (even though they'd be doing less damage to their body)? Do you think that people with no history of using tobacco or alcohol are suddenly going to start injecting heroin?

Kind thanks rstuart for taking time to attach the link and outlining the ratios too. Greatly appreciated.

My stance over 30 odd years is and always will be, never to legalise heroin, marijuana, cocaine, and not to legalise the use of ice, ecstacy including all pills.

I have worked in drug and alcohol detox centres in the city.

Legalising the new array of drugs such as ice, ecstacy, and drugs producing adverse personal harm and the heartache and harm to drug users' families, friends, work colleagues and the community in general: no way.

I mix with young people daily and notice the differences in their normal behaviour as opposed to the symptoms of occasional social weekend drug use and the longer term use of pills.

Why would some OLO posters recommend the legalisation of drugs [all drugs] when few trials into pills and newer pills hitting the Australian market daily have not been done. It will be quite a few years before results on studies will be completed. You all are such loving caring people to our new Australian generation.

Gee....if only you cared about our future children, grandchildren, neices and nephews as you all care about our Environment. There wont be our families living in the 'wonderful clean polution free environment' or perhaps they may. Neurologically significantly impaired, limbless, cancer ridden, and a debt to society [much worse than marijuana users and/or heroin users.

Most of the kids popping regularly shift from one job to another, thieve, carry out break and enters, damage others' property from time to time [for the thrill of it], act irresponsibly towards their friends family and colleagues not to mention the abuse factor.

Marijuana addiction: varies from person to person on factors such as short or long term useage, genetics, health of individual; generally not producing flesh eating symptoms and rapid self harm re; pills.

The crap in these pills and the symptoms produced are hazardous; not only to the young users and their families; the hidden effects do impact upon their friends, work colleagues and their community

Further, I could sit quietly and not object to a potential trial for the legalisation of heroin and marijuana over say the age of 25yrs. For kids while growing and developing, learning strategies on how to cope in this lack of extended family environments: NO. Legalisation of pills: NO.