In Brisbane a beautiful old dance hall in a scenic position was knocked down with the full support of government and contrary to public opinion. Not only was Cloudland a readily identifiable part of Brisbane's heritage, it had been the economical night time destination for generations. There were no problems there either.

Of course the popular Cloudland was never re-built and now everyone is forced to go to crowded, seedy nightclubs with bikies on the door and drugs with names starting with every letter of the alphabet available inside. Despite the Royal Commission, numerous inquiries (the recommendations of which are quietly put to sleep), Brisbane still has criminals controlling clubs and doubtless politicians and enforcement are back to turning a blind eye, or worse.

I have no doubt that government only pretends to listen to voters, while saving its full attention and priority for developers and entrepreneurs who are willing to wine and dine politicians and make large political donations.

Interesting article with some good suggestions. But given howe the violence problem has been growing I don't think the gov will act any time soon.

Maybe the blow-ins just want a good night out bashing the snobs who think they own the city?

Which sums up the mentality and the problem nicely.

If you make a neutral statement iut seems like an ednorsement.

Houellebecq,any constructive suggestions for how to minimise late night violence?

ah Cornflower, you said the magic words there, 'Cloudland Ballroom'. It was a majestic place and full of good memories. Remember the springloaded dance floor?

Where was I? Oh yes, Hoons and thugs from Dandenong and Frankston, who, in the main, like to drive fast and live dangerously.

The problem with this article, like so many from the social sciences, is that it's based on assumptions or 'I reckon'.

I'm all for having cigars rooms in the suburbs but I've got to tell you, this ain't what's on the mind of most 17 year old boys and girls.

Lets cut to the chase. If you think we've got a problem, try East LA. Even the cops don't go there. We are fed namby pamby articles like this and then told it's a problem. It's a symptom of people kicking out the jambs. What they should do is pay a visit to QUT and ask them why sociology is now part of the creative industries.

So the big city doesn't want the kids from the sticks. Diddums. Perhaps the city only want the rich thugs, not the poor ones from the sticks.

Well, that's OK by me, provided the city doesn't expect the sticks to put up with power & water supply for the city, degrading their suburbs & towns. Of course we could tell the cities to look to use their own water, & keep their hands off ours.

Sound a bit silly doesn't it, we are supposed to be one country. So perhaps the city should fund services for those who spend their money there. Truth be known, they probably have a duty of care, they are not fulfilling.

So wake up you city types, if you want to play silly games, I'm sure you won't have much trouble with blow in kids, once the water, & power is turned off. Who wants to spend a night in a dark dry city.

Anna,

'any constructive suggestions for how to minimise late night violence?'

I was being constructive. The snobby attitude that you have exhibited is the reason for all that pent up class hatred that shows itself in violence. Segregating the community in a form of class apartheid that you suggest is no solution.

'first, it is not a solution to exclude people from the city.'
How Generous of you!

'it should be made easier for them to leave the CBD after their night out'
Fine, fair enough.

'giving young adults a greater incentive to stay near home, by replicating the activities the city provides'
Yeah! Patronise them and give them a cheap pretend night out, away from us cool city folk. They'd be happier with their own kind anyway.

'venues may be above retail stores that are open during daylight hours.'
Why, they can have a night out in their shopping malls! That'd be great for them! Those pikeys have no need for sophistication, ambience or atmosphere.

'Perhaps Dandenong might suit a multicultural entertainment district, where young adults may go for a Vietnamese dinner followed by a short walk to a belly dancing performance, then on to a late night Bollywood disco, and close the night upstairs in an exclusive multicultural club that serves drinks and cigars from across the globe.'

Yep, the wogs seem to like that kind of stuff. They'd be much more at home if we set up a Bollywood disco. That'll keep them out of our city.

It might not be good fodder for social sciences students, and might not lead to more funding for your pet Creative Suburbs project (Waah), but a simple ramping up of police resources, tackling violence regardless of class is the most logical, rational and effective way of tackling such problems.

Pity you'd still have to put up with all those undesirable wogs and pikeys though huh?

Houellebecq,

It is most unfair of you not to tug your forelock and go along with the demand from the inner city penthouse folk for the grubs from the 'burbs to be sent back where they belong.

There has been a boom in inner city apartments and those who have made their squillions from ramped up population growth really shouldn't have to share the burden they have created for others. So get with the program, NOW!

As a previous Speaker of the federal House of Representatives, Fred Daly used to say, in a one horse race you can always bet on self interest.

When I came to Melbourne in 1989 the CBD was like a ghost town after 6 or 7 at night.People came to the CBD to work or shop and went home to the suburbs at night or on the weekends.There was no Southbank,no Crown,no Docklands,no Mall and no Federation Square.Apart from some night clubs in King Street the only other places to go were to Festival Hall,Theatres or Cinemas or Town Hall.I remember knowing someone that lived in the city and this was a novelty as people did not live in the CBD then.
Instead young people went to live music venues - in pubs in suburbs around the city.These venues were surrounded by restaurants so first you would go and eat something and then go and listen to some music at a pub.It was civilized- not just going out drinking from bar to bar- and often there was a very mixed crowd out and about-not just young people.Sadly now there is no more Punters Club in Fitzroy,Sarah Sands in Brunswick or Tote in Collingwood-other places like them seem to be going in the same directions-which leaves young people wandering the streets at night wondering what to do with themselves.

Sonya

You might be aware of the proposed changes to liquor licensing laws that will close small music venues in Melbourne. There was a protest in the CBD a day or two ago.

What happens is a bit of money moves into inner city apartments (gentrification) and next thing they are mobilising to close 'noisy' entertainment that has existed for years. Their property values and lifestyle would be much improved if they could give raucous youth and the nasty working classes the bum's rush from the city.

Anyhow, just a tip-off and you and others can follow up with councillors as you like.

In Brisbane there is currently pressure from developers and owners of recently constructed apartments to close the Jazz Club which is on the southern side of the river and close to the (noisy) Story Bridge. The iconic Jazz Club has been there for years and the proposal is for the doors to be closed and music ceased from a certain time. Next stage, OK now we want it closeddown.

Hi, apologies for the delay in responding here.

Cheryl wrote: "The problem with this article, like so many from the social sciences, is that it's based on assumptions or 'I reckon'." Perhaps I misnterpreted that this is an opinion site but fear not, this study is based on a robust research process.

Houellebecq wrote: "Segregating the community in a form of class apartheid that you suggest is no solution." Not at all, the issue is one of transport so either (a) minimising the need for transport or (b) for those who do want to invest 2 hours or so in travelling, ensuring that a night time economy doesn't only have day time public transport, is what this is about. This isn't about any kind of apartheid. You responded to: "'first, it is not a solution to exclude people from the city.' How Generous of you!" - that was my reaction to Robert Doyle's comments. And finally, it's incorrect to criticise me as an inner city snob when you don't know where I live. For the record, I live between the inner city, an outer suburb and a rural area.

Sonya - I too remember Cloudlands fondly!

I'm still baffled how anyone would think Bollywood discos and night clubs inside shopping malls is the un-tapped potential market for our youth.

Do you know any young people? Less books and more partying needed for you.

Houellebecq - you're casting aspertions on me again! Yes I go out a lot, late, in both Melbourne and Brisbane.

I'm thinking of venues like the Troubadour in the Valley (Brisbane) - where I was last weekend, or the Pony (Melbourne CBD) - where I will be this weekend. I've also been out late at night in Dandenong and Frankston and will be in Dandenong this weekend and next Tuesday for cultural events.

Having a venue above retail stores means (a) the space is not empty during the daytime (a common criticism of 'entertainment precincts', and why urban planners now prefer the term 'mixed use zones') and (b) having stairs (and a lift for people in wheelchairs etc.) tends to prevent those who are very intoxicated getting in. That's all, minor points really!

PS a night of Bollywood entertainment (outdoor film, dancing, live music etc.) in the Little India precinct in Dandenong would ROCK!

PPS - the Troubadour and Pony are both venues up stairs, and the Troubadour is above a retail store