Houellebecq: "Stats games" provide quantitative evidence that distinguish "propaganda" from legitimate information.

I don't know who "mog" is and have only recently become aware of a poster named chazp. I scrutinize every post/poster that I read.

<"I've been in an abusive relationship where I barely protected myself">

Were you able to escape? How ? What did she do to prevent it? I hope you had the sense to seek an AVO and to lay charges.

<"I don't think you can grasp the damage a lot of the absolutist feminist campaigns unfairly paint all men with the same brush.">

Such campaigns arise from health, welfare and even police sources that are using every preventive means they can to decrease the imposition on their services of continued interpersonal violence.

I take it you're referring to the "Your strength is not for hurting" posters. I thought it was rather a good campaign. They don't paint all men with the same brush - YOU paint yourself with whatever brush you like.

It would be interesting to see the menz come up with some anti violence campaign. Be nice if they would do something constructive like that instead of feeding each other the rubbish that now prevails.

They don't provide anything whatsoever to prevent violence by anyone (M or F); but keep on track to prevent women terminating relationships with men or obtaining support outside of their influence or destroying any services providing safety to victims of violence. Interesting fact - those same services are accessible to them (AVOs, police, hospitals, shelter accommodation) - yet the stats of male usage wouldn't fill a thimble.

Male-male rape victims and male children who have been sexually assaulted as children are another matter entirely - increasingly accessing services, which is a good thing and hopefully will continue to help reduce the male suicide rate.

Answers to your questions:
No
Yes - and that's good and bad for women, men and children.
Definitely - what's your proposed alternative when a relationship breaks down?

Your last para: A product of your preconceived notions about feminism; not my position.

Severin - right there with you.

Stev - but you did say and even argued your perception that these two women were being vaunted at the expense of men.

I would say that these women were ignored in historical accounts and it's a miracle that their achievements have been noticed at all. I am really glad to see that it's a bloke who has done so (thanks Brian).

Yet we have all sat in school rooms hearing and thrilling for years at male achievement - rightfully so too; except that achievers from the other half of the population have not been reported much at all - leaving the default conclusion that notable achievements are usual for men and extremely rare for women.

I don't know where that leaves you in your bid for victimhood but I am pretty sure you don't have a case to argue.

Ah, I see, the historical lack of recognition of women justifies the need to denigrate men in the present.

Are you incapable of admitting that recognition does not require denigration of "the other"?

And since I am not engaging in a "bid for victimhood" I can only assume that you are projecting your own desires onto me.

Stev: The article is about women in the 1920s and 30s or something.

Men aren't being denigrated now and they weren't denigrated then. How systems worked is just how it was and people modified their life goals accordingly; some were happy and some not. That doesn't mean that the systems shouldn't have been subject to change.

If you don't like what was said about how men accepted their world then or about how men were or are; if you're a different sort of bloke, then bravo. There should be more of it.

pynchme,

'provide quantitative evidence'

Not when they're distorted to the level they are by people with a barrow to push, and selectively picked by the likes of yourself and antispetic.

BTW: I have a degree in statistics.

The campaign was,

'TO Violence Against Women-(only) Australia Says No.'

These adverts depicted a guy yelling at his wife. They contained not 1, not 1 depiction of a woman yelling at her partner, of throwing glasses, of wielding a knife. That sh1t just doesn't happen you know!

'Were you able to escape? How ? What did she do to prevent it?'

My paternal instincts ensured I remained there to assure HER safety from herself. I was too afraid to leave her with the threats of self harm. As a man, I am there to look after my partner, not run away like a wuss. I did love her at the time too.

Actually sometimes I did attempt to leave the situation hoping she'd cool down, but she would follow me, cling on to me, and yell 'don't you touch me' if I attempted to detach her. See, your propaganda worked well on her. Only men are abusive.

Soon after I saw the adverts, confirming that I was really the one in the wrong. I had yelled back at her after all, and even grabbed her wrist and pushed her off me. Nasty male abuser that I am.

'yet the stats of male usage wouldn't fill a thimble.'

And why would they? After watching those adverts, and knowing the place would be staffed by a bunch of beaten wives and feminists, do you really think anyone would believe me?

'Yeah, then she kicked you, threw glasses, she wielded a knife, ok.... HEY you grabbed her arm!? How hard did you grab her? That's not on I'm afraid! What did you do to make her angry? I don't think you're telling us everything. Didn't you see those adverts. Where there's smoke there's fire, I think we have an abuser on our hands girls!

Houellebecq: If you have a degree in stats (I didn't know there was a "degree in statistics", unless you mean something like epidemiology, which was part of one of my post-grads. I also did the usual stats that one does in psych and other undergraduate studies) - in any case, I would therefore expect you to be discerning enough to read the information provided which is predominantly from government sites and peer reviewed literature.

H: <"And why would they? After watching those adverts, and knowing the place would be staffed by a bunch of beaten wives and feminists, do you really think anyone would believe me?

You know there is nothing stopping the menz organizations from creating their own adverts and putting them up for consideration. Many of those groups have obtained considerable funding; why not suggest to them that they get busy on it?

'Yeah, then she kicked you, threw glasses, she wielded a knife, ok.... HEY you grabbed her arm!? How hard did you grab her? That's not on I'm afraid! What did you do to make her angry? I don't think you're telling us everything. Didn't you see those adverts. Where there's smoke there's fire, I think we have an abuser on our hands girls!">

First of all you'd be speaking to a health worker and/or police officer. Neither organization is predominantly staffed by beaten wives or feminists. Btw: feminists have no trouble at all seeing violence from women and have worked hard to have women regarded as citizens with the same capabilities (good and bad) as any citizen. You're sounding hysterical. The point is, your story sounds horrible and I don't doubt it - but did you lay charges? Did you have the good sense to seek an AVO. If not, then your ridiculous preconceived notions have done you a disservice.