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The Forum > Article Comments > Two years on, the ‘great moral challenge’ just leaves people in the cold > Comments

Two years on, the ‘great moral challenge’ just leaves people in the cold : Comments

By Graham Young, published 16/2/2010

Global warming won't again be the winner for the government that it was in 2007.

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Global warming no longer an issue.

I don't think so. I do not see any sign that worsening environmental problems will go away.

what I do see is a flawed ets that was too complicated to get in, electorate/s that are not prepared to make hard decisions to deal with real problems, and political opportunism in an unprecedented form to complicate and wreck the need for crucial reform.

The lack of urgency about the global warming debate (around the world) may even suggest why we will now again struggle to meet other important needs such as housing.

Politics does appear to be about who can make appeal to the greatest number of voters to win the necessary seats. While I love democracy, I am worried about recent policy trends and the type of debate that is coming from both sides of politics now.

All i see is pain ahead, whether on the environment, or the standard of living as costs rise for housing, food and utilites.
Posted by Chris Lewis, Wednesday, 17 February 2010 6:34:43 AM
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K Rudd has to decide if he is going to be a conservative industry minion, or a real statesman.
I am convinced that no real change can occur using taxes and enforcement...it just won't work. We will need to adapt to climate change, whether "natural" or "man made". This will involve a switch to sustainable and *robust* housing, water, farming and energy. Only investment in R&D will achieve this. It will not be achieved if we continue along the regressive Howard trend of large underclass of poor folks serving a minority of super-rich. social policy is actually rather important!
We need positive action: Renewables won't be viable until cheaper then the alternative...Peak oil and an end to unaffordable subsidies will soon make this possible. (Unless, like banking, it is propped up unsustainably...again.)
Renewables are not just as green thing either, they are absolutely necessary for the ongoing sustainability, indeed viability of our country. They will provide real jobs too.
We need our military to abstain from joining foreign wars for resources, we do know that the "war on terror" was a sham now don't we?
Alas, it looks like Kevin is just John with *slightly* more conscience: Still a religious conservative who is primarily political.
Posted by Ozandy, Wednesday, 17 February 2010 8:16:22 AM
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I don't think that you can blame people to much for either tuning out to the problem of climate change or completely going into denial about it, and turning off to Rudd Government. Firstly the problem seems huge and you need all the countries of the world singing from the same hymn book to address it. Copenhagen did not achieve that.

Secondly, only the people really up on the subject understand Rudd's solution which the Greens and environment movement say won't work anyway.

Thirdly, that seductive devil (shudder) Abbott is whispering in people's ears that he has a pain free solution that won't hit them in the pocket.

Lastly though, and most importantly I think is that people are just rushed, tired and de-engerised. They spend hours getting to work in stressful conditions, they have to worry about where the food and rent money is coming from, they get told that everything they eat, drink and breath, is likely to be killing them and that they are ruining the planet by leaving the lights on and going for a drive and they have to handle the everyday stuff of dramas with family and friends.

It's no wonder that people are deciding just to be 'happy', get on with their lives and leaving the worry to later. We may be leaving our grandchildren interesting times, but if they were living now, they would probably be doing the same thing. Just human nature. I agree with the recent Age article that we need someone who can communicate to get interest going again in a positive way.
Posted by JL Deland, Wednesday, 17 February 2010 8:34:05 AM
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It is hard to have a sensible debate with people like Arjay who sees a conspiracy in every piece of evidence and presumably genuinely believes all of the hard working, poorly paid, disconnected researchers around the world feel the need to lie and falsify findings to ensure their funding.

Take this quote "The reality is this,the world has not warmed in the last 10 yrs even with a 26% increase by man made CO2.The Northern hemisphere has had record cold winters that excel records of 40 yrs or more.Climategate reveals a cover up of mind boggling proportions and the popular media just ignores it because their masters in Wall Street,want a new derivative called Carbon Trading to further fleece the masses."

Wrong in every count! Er, sorry he at least admits that man made CO2 is significantly increasing...

With the inability to use empirical data then we must resort to anecdotal evidence such as retreating glaciers, melting tanundras in Russia etc.

Perhaps someone would care to comment on why today the Canadians have abandoned the Olympic downhill events as there is NO snow, record high temperatures and rain. This supports the statement on record cold winters in the Northern Hemisphere? Perhaps Arjay thinks Vancouver is in Mexico!

I feel sorry for any politician trying to address the issue as they need to be elected to implement policy but once the media "swings" public opinion then how can they press on with critical decision making if it is going to lose them an election!

Alan Jones et al will be long buried by the time the world really goes "pear shaped".
Posted by Peter King, Wednesday, 17 February 2010 8:57:03 AM
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Chris, and others (so called religious people)

Apart from the opening five words, I would agree that your conclusions are on the money.
I contend that it is still 'the issue', but articles *like* GYs (not his alone)simply undermine human resolve and attention.

*The problems are still there. They haven't gone away*
On one level the sceptics are entitled to their doubts even opposition but one would have thought those who proclaim Christianity (Abbott included) would move beyond 'destroy the theory by any means' thus creating a lack of attention/resolve to deal with the problems creating an obvious a vacuum. It to this insert cynically, self interest.

One is entitled to ask these so called Religious, who are keen to, proselytize even impose their values, to actually practicing what they profess... 'being their brother's keeper'(a concept in most religions) and replace the theory with either one that meets all the circumstances/data/science or a remedy.

If for example, the Ganges and China's yellow river etc, decrease because of the retreating *specific* Glaciers and desertification of that end of the Tibetan plateau progresses which they are. Then negative feedback reduces those rivers further we have an obvious refugee disaster in the making. Far exceeding that of both WWs combined and then some.

In short 'the great moral challenge' hasn't gone away it has simply transmogrified into one that should challenge every so called religious sceptics and/or deniers
Posted by examinator, Wednesday, 17 February 2010 9:36:10 AM
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A fascinating “role reversal” is taking place on OLO. When NIWA acknowledges that they don’t have the SOA to support their warming claim, I believe them. When the IPCC, CRU, London Met Office and many of the lead authors acknowledge flawed data, people credibility, processes and probity, I believe them.

AGW supporters on the other hand are defending, excusing and mitigating. They have become so, how can I put it? Skeptical.
Posted by spindoc, Wednesday, 17 February 2010 10:58:39 AM
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