Let's say you walk into a shop seeing bread priced at $25.00 per loaf, milk at $15.00 per litre and fruit and vegetables starting at $10.00 per kilogram.

Let's say, you are shocked as the prices seem too high, but there are no other options available - the other shops nearby all have the same prices.

What would you do?

Open a shop.

Get some chickens and some goats and a garden. But with an overpopulated world there may not be enough space in my bubble to survive. See Biosphere.

Steal some food.

What would you do?

- Drive to the nearest McDonalds, Hungry Jacks or KFC

Here's another scenario:
- In regards to 'equality'

Lets say male fruit pickers can pick 100 apples an hour on average;
And female fruit pickers can pick 80 apples an hour on average.

Does the female deserve the same wages as the man?

Should both male and female employees be paid by the hour or by apples picked?

Are women consumers prepared to pay more for the female picked apples to support other women and make up for the lower rate of picking and cost passed on to the retailer?

Should Coles, Woolies and other retailers offer 'Male picked' apples as well as 'female picked' apples and if so who pays for the increased store space?

Are they even willing to pay more for the female picked apples?

What happens if there is no demand for higher priced apples when compared to their lower cost male-picked counterparts?

The first thing I'd do is check my location. Because if they're Taiwan dollars (for example) the prices that appear high would actually be quite low.

But if they are Australian dollars, I'd probably buy what I need and no more.

Why do you ask?

Nathan we in a smaller way, already do, pay more that is
Take recycling, those 15 cent bags
They end up in landfill achieve nothing
Ask your garbo, after he has had a beer or two
Recycle bins often, in some places always, go in the normal landfill bound rubbish
Got a few too many? do you put them in the rubbish?
paying more for strictly good reasons often is just paying more

<<Why do you ask?>>

Let's say for example it's thousands of years from today.

Lets say the environment around you is different.

Let's say prices have risen substantially as there is a strangle hold by two large providers who are dictating food prices internationally and have access to nearly all of the fresh food market.

Let's say no-one is up to opening a shop, that isn't sustainable or able to cater for people's needs.

NathanJ,
If it's thousands of years from now, that's very different.
Assuming an average inflation rate of 1%pa, in a thousand years you'd need over twenty thousand dollars to match the purchasing power of one of todays. So those prices that seemed expensive are actually incredibly cheap!

If your duopoly really had a stranglehold, smaller producers would be very profitable. But if prices are as low as you say, that would explain the absence of smaller producers.

Help the Australian Conservatives trim the fat off the high salary bureaudroids, that'll bring the prices down again.

Nathan inflation, it happens, as prices rise food costs rise
One pound [two dollars] once filled my tank bought me beer and cigarettes for a weekend

I think Nathan might get his wish if the coal hating marxist get their way. Then again if they take us the same way as Venezuala we will have to beg for milk and bread rather than pay huge amounts. Is the abc and the rest of the academia elite still inviting these marxist traitors to unis to teach us how to give free medical and health services?

Armchair Critic- Thanks for the comparison between male and female apples. Cheers.

Posted by NathanJ, Thursday, 28 March 2019 10:52:51 AM

Let's say prices have risen substantially as there is a strangle hold by two large providers who are dictating food prices internationally and have access to nearly all of the fresh food market.

Answer- If I found myself or my community unable to be self sufficient I would need to look at the supply and demand side of the problem and address both. If there was a duopoly of all resources the only options appear to be "to kill or to die"

*Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 28 March 2019 11:43:04 AM

Do you live in a high rise Canem Malum? Your answer indicates little experience with stock.

If you are going to have chickens & goats, you are going to need a lot of strong fencing wire & posts, if you want to have a garden as well.

I think watching reruns of "The Bush Tucker Man" might become necessary in this scenario.

Answer- Thanks for your feedback Hasbeen- I understand that you have a good understanding of the subject matter. I have some understanding of chickens less about goats and I do appreciate that putting vegetables within eye-sight of goats is likely to make veggies mysteriously vanish. I enjoy building fences but I'm sure they aren't up to your high standards- I have a very useful "star dropper driver" (usually I buy 7' droppers at the ag store) that I keep around along with a 200 metre spool of barbed wire. At any rate if (as NathanJ prognosticated in his thread) the price of food underwent extreme inflation this it seems that the best option would be to learn how to grow my own food. Then I could benefit twice!

If you have any advise for a budding "prepper" I'm sure you are very knowledgeable. Generally I'm good with tools

They don't make star pickets like they used to.
- Cheap Chinese steel rusts out in a couple of years -

I just came from having a ½ hr conversation with a senior federal Parliamentarian & I must admit I was floored by the explanations I got to my questions.
It literally is pointless to try & convince people on the merits of decency & accountability.
This person enlightened me on matters of Flat tax, National Service, Welfare, old age Pension & asset test etc.
Govt simply can not perform properly because of the average voter sabotaging everything Govt is trying to achieve. It's the average voter who just demands but won't move a little finger to help solve problems. Everyone just wants & wants. The stories about Welfare cheats are mind-boggling. Then there are the parents of utterly indisciplined kids, simply scary ! The mentality of the average Citizen as I perceived it is plain & simply unworkable.
I pray Labor doesn't get in to completely ruin any chance there could be to make this society a more considerate one !

Armchair Critic- Good tip about star pickets- thanks.

Individual- I remember Malcolm Turnbull talking about the limits of power- it seems to dove-tail with your experience today.

The world is very populated. Australia's population is high.

Arable land has been built over and soil quality is poor.

The global food supply is short.

Water is in limited supply.

Oceans are full of litter.

Weather is affecting crops on farms.

There is only a select array of foods on the shelves.

Many farms have shut or have been taken over by large companies.

What then? After all, this is more than CPI.

I have made a special effort to speak & discuss the merits of Flat Tax, National Service & all other issues I draw attention to here with both staunch Labor & Liberal/National/One Nation supporters. The surprising part is that all agree strongly with the need for a National Service Tax reform, Welfare reform, in fact anything & everything that evolves around saving the social deterioration of this Nation.
Those who literally oppose such an effort are exclusively from the Public service, particularly Teachers & those with academic background & some retired bureaucrats who are now in consultancy work. These people all ask for increased funding in anything one can think of yet
they strongly object to anything that requires them to contribute.
It really is a shocking state of affairs & it is the Leftist Media that fosters & feeds this appalling mentality !
Search within your conscience at this upcoming federal election which is very likely the most critical election in this nation's history ! Remember, there is a realistic third option for the first time, Independents.

Nathan much as it is today the well off would live much as they do today and the rest go hungry
You may well be talking of a very real future,the world is largely ignoring the fact some parts of it are overpopulated right now
Any country that can not feed its population, house them, have enough water for them, is overpopulated
It will get worse, yesterday's press warned a third of all Africans wanted to migrate
Yes those who have it will pay more to eat, but those without?

a third of all Africans wanted to migrate
Belly,
They don't really want to, they're forced to by those with that certain agenda !

yet again old mate indy you believe in weird stuff
I get the feeling if the very right ever took over you would be one of its first victims

Dear Nathan,

«$25.00 per loaf, milk at $15.00 per litre and fruit and vegetables starting at $10.00 per kilogram»

This is already the case for some:

If you are allergic/intolerant to both gluten and yeast, but still insist on a proper loaf of bread (rather than live on rice-crackers), then it would cost you about as much.
If you cannot have cow-milk (unhealthy for humans anyway) nor even goat-milk, yet you insist on dairy, then sheep-milk would cost you about as much.
Then try finding fruits or vegetables in a certified-organic store for less than $10/Kg...

In biblical times they used to eat their children under such circumstances:

{
Some time later, Ben-Hadad king of Aram mobilized his entire army and marched up and laid siege to Samaria.
There was a great famine in the city; the siege lasted so long that a donkey’s head sold for eighty shekels of silver, and a quarter of a cab of seed pods for five shekels.
As the king of Israel was passing by on the wall, a woman cried to him, “Help me, my lord the king!”
The king replied, “If the Lord does not help you, where can I get help for you? From the threshing floor? From the winepress?”
Then he asked her, “What’s the matter?”
She answered, “This woman said to me, ‘Give up your son so we may eat him today, and tomorrow we’ll eat my son.’
So we cooked my son and ate him. The next day I said to her, ‘Give up your son so we may eat him,’ but she had hidden him.”
}
[2 Kings 6,24-29]

Nathan ww2 started after the peace deal sent Germany broke, millions of marks, wheelbarrows full, needed to buy a loaf of bread
Much the same takes place in any country when some can not afford to eat
This country is headed for a recession, maybe the world is
Just maybe that will change the way our world works, not for the better
Power always belongs to the very rich

yet again old mate indy you believe in weird stuff
Belly,
This is the very first link that came up when I googled the subject. Pretty weird stuff eh ?

https://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/item/21772-muslim-refugee-warns-this-is-the-islamic-conquest-of-the-west

indy take the s of your links, we can then follow them
I could find a thousand such links,
Ever some of yours
To try proving anything but it would just be another link to one mans view
I know we are at war with radical Islam
Know we must, and will, win that war
You seem not to know Islam is the biggest victim of these terrorists

You seem not to know Islam is the biggest victim of these terrorists
Belly,
Wrong again, people are the biggest victims because of it ! They're being pushed into western countries at all costs & that is what you don't seem to see.
Islam is like a Union in many aspects !

Brave man indy
Telling the world you think being the largest number of Terrorist victims is nor harmful to other Muslims

the largest number of Terrorist victims is nor harmful to other Muslims
Belly,
For Christ's sake READ what I wrote !

Muslims are murdered by Islamic terrorist in far bigger numbers than any other faith/nation, group
indy read my posts think more about yours

https://israelbehindthenews.com/isis-threatens-to-send-500000-migrants-to-europe-as-a-psychological-weapon-in-chilling-echo-of-gaddafis-prophecy-that-the-mediterranean-will-become-a-sea-of-chaos/13574/
Belly,
Digest this !

Individual- I think there are a few around that are locked so far to "the left" that they'd have to make three turns to make a right. ;)
There are the ones that agree, the ones in the middle, the ones you'll never convince. It's productive to pitch to the middle.

Take care mate.

indy, until you take the S of https your links do not work
Calum Malum know
This poster is not from the left
That you in saying such, about anyone not a Republican/Trump supporter do your image little good
Right now on facebook [AND IT IS NOT ME] a list of Sir Robert Menzies quotes and policies is on show
He formed today's Liberals, then he had policies very very much like today's ALP
From the right [controlling faction] of my party the true left is no better than your awful right
Only some form [everyone pays tax??] form of capitalism will work for us tax the 61 Australian millionaires who paid zero and we have made a start

anyone not a Republican/Trump supporter do your image little good
Belly,
Better notify the Republicans here !

indy face it, for decades your one line, often hard to understand, barbs are a bit blunt/meaningless
Have seen you can do better if you try
It remains the truth a whole world of anti Trump people exist, growing in numbers too
Charges like the voice tapes about his exual adventures are there to be seen
A bank of outright lies he has told
In all honesty the bloke proves some of us should ot be trusted to vote

Belly said-
This poster is not from the left. That you in saying such, about anyone not a Republican/Trump supporter do your image little good. Right now on facebook [AND IT IS NOT ME] a list of Sir Robert Menzies quotes and policies is on show. He formed today's Liberals, then he had policies very very much like today's ALP. From the right [controlling faction] of my party the true left is no better than your awful right
Only some form [everyone pays tax??] form of capitalism will work for us tax the 61 Australian millionaires who paid zero and we have made a start.

Answer- According to Patrick Deneen. The Social Liberals are the Left/ the Economic Liberals (Menzies) are the Right. But- due to historical factors- Conservatives usually sit with the Right even though they are against "Liberalism / Blind Freedom / Change" in a broad sense.

If your policy views are about Social Freedom then this would suggest that you have leftist views- this can be motivated by Economic considerations- then you could be a supporter of the Left Wing of the Australian Liberal Party.

Perhaps for Conservatives Economics is more about stability than growth because of its inherent boom bust nature.

The terms of Left, Right, Conservative, etc appear to be often misused either intentionally or not. I find it necessary to give a definition when I discuss them.

There are links between Communism and Socialism and Social Liberalism from the developments in history through various individuals and movements

"We took the name 'Liberal' because we were determined to be a progressive party, willing to make experiments, in no sense reactionary but believing in the individual, his rights, and his enterprise, and rejecting the socialist panacea."
Robert Menzies

From the about Menzies quote the Liberal Party is "Right Liberal". Ayn Rand, Fountainhead 1943 had motivated a concept of the "Heroic Businessman" at about the same era- perhaps that is what Menzies was tapping into when he formed the Liberal Party in 1944.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand

David Nolan, one of the founders of the Libertarian Party, stated that "without Ayn Rand, the libertarian movement would not exist"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Nolan_(libertarian)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Party_(United_States)

CM hard stuff, seeing you stick to the view any one not a conservative is a Lefty
Time, if we both have enough, will prove the very right has got it very wrong

will prove the very right has got it very wrong
Belly,
Anything extreme is wrong left or right or extreme party loyalty !

in your view indy!
Once again my mate you get in to trying to read my mind
KNOW I voted against Labor in NSW the year the filth saw us beaten
KNOW I CONSTANTLY, take them on ,demanding true reform true honest selection of our leaders
Demand the death of that word solidarity because it has hidden some true filth
Now yes, yes again, every extreme is wrong left and right

Belly said- you stick to the view any one not a conservative is a Lefty

Answer- I didn't say that- I said that those that promote Socially Liberal policies are promoting Left policies- no matter what side of politics they stand officially.

CM we are crossing verbal swords quite a lot of late
But maybe you know, as I do, sometimes defense od OUR SIDE is, well wrong
See I demand, beg for, work for, true modernisation, reform, from my side
Supporting something I do not believe in, lacks moral fibre as ww1 soldiers had been charged with
So in the end take on board while both majors are shedding first preference voters my side gets more than any single party

Belly said- sometimes defense od (of) OUR SIDE is, well wrong

Answer-

I think I know what your side is from the policies you defend and attack but I'd be interested in knowing what side you think you are on and more importantly why.

OUR SIDE- this is also ambiguous. The side that an arbitrary person has. Or is this an implication that you (Belly) and myself (Canem Malum) are on the same side.

There are also other ambiguities in relation to the quote above.

Belly said- any one not a conservative is a Lefty

Answer- Perhaps you're saying that what I'm saying is that "anyone not a Conservative is a Classical Locke Liberal" - this comment would be loosely correct.

What I mean by Classical Locke Liberal (or Liberal in it's short form) is someone that believes in Social Liberalism (Leftism) or Economic Free Trade Market Liberalism (Small L Liberal Rightism).

The thing is Liberalism includes elements on the Left and the Right of politics.

They also call "Paleo Conservatives" or Traditional Conservatives- right of centre.

Also in the US they call the Democrats (a left wing party) "Liberals".

In Australia they call the majority Free Marketeers (a right wing party) the Liberal Party.

I've found Patrick Deneen's analysis of Locke Liberalism to be a very useful way of viewing politics- and usually use this as a lense- though given the complex nature of politics- I'm sure that it isn't without limitations.

In summary- I'm saying loosely that "anyone not a Conservative is a Liberal either Socially or of the Market"

Verbale tennis CA but best played with some strings in you racket
Not sure you will ever let truth get past your fixed view you know more than others
Things have become much, much tighter in the upcoming election
No side has it in the bag
Can we agree voters by electing one or the other, know what they are doing?

Can we agree voters by electing one or the other, know what they are doing?
Belly,
NO !

is dictatorship your wish indy?
What if it is a Labor dictatorship?

Belly,
the positives about a benevolent (a non-benevolent is no option) Dictator would be that he'she could draw on the positives from all sides.
The simply could not be a benevolent Labor or Liberal Dictator.
All thinking folks would agree that a benevolent leadership would be the ideal, several times better that our so-called Democracy !
One that doesn't sell this country down the Drain like ALP/LNP do, sanctioned by everyday Australians hungry for the almighty Dollar !

Can we just clarify that pretty much all of us are, at some time or other, on some issue or other, conservatives.

What does 'conservative' mean, if not "willing to change course ONLY if there are compelling reasons to do so", or "unwilling to change course if one cannot see any reason to, but willing to consider change if it is persuasive."

To every principle or policy, there are crackpot alternatives, which most of us would quickly reject, so we all have a healthy dose of conservatism.

There's many variations on that principle. A stronger form is Lord Falkland's: "that if there is no strong reason to change policy or course, then it's important NOT to change."

And then there are many reactionary, resistant, hidebound forms of conservatism.

Of course, that natural caution should go hand-in-hand with a compassion for the downtrodden and oppressed - conservatism doesn't necessarily mean sticking to the old ways, no matter what, and especially if it is one's own personal interest.

On that criterion, it may even be possible to be a progressive conservative ;) Conversely, it's amazing how backward and reactionary some of the views of some leftists can be if they think they're not fundamental to their ideological stance.

Joe

Loudmouth yes very true, but forgive me if I can not bring myself to believe indyd view most of us are mad
Putting my head in to a construction lunch room told me a great deal about your view
Openly listen not talk and you will get confirmation even ALP voters are conservative in their view
Howard knew that, he used it well
Hawk for his first two years too

Start trying to grow my own food?

Start trying to grow my own food?
Bozec,
Good luck with that in the inner city !

The first thing I would do as regards fruit and veggies is see if the frozen or dried options are cheaper. If so, then I would use them instead of fresh.
For bread, I would check the price of flour and if cheaper, make my own. Did it for years in the bush.
If it was going to be a temporary state then I would buy ready made meals or take away. If it was going to be permanent I would move my family to a place I could grow my own food and raise chooks and pigs. And rabbits, because they are incredibly cheap to feed and breed prolifically. During the depression my grandfather kept his whole family alive on rabbits bred in the cellar.