This 'letter to the editor' sums up Australian self-hatred, or suicidal tendencies, quite well.

“If you set out to destroy a successful Western democracy, you couldn’t do better than adopt the policies and ideas now prevalent in Australia: high energy costs to exhaust family budgets and make industry unviable; high company taxes to ward off new investment; schools that favour gender issues over maths and English; universities that preach from the texts of the green-left; enforcement of costly delusions about our capacity to affect global emissions; identity politics to help create division; free speech jettisoned for the mirage of equality and diversity; and a military force with fingernails painted pink”.

The writer could have included multiculturalism and mass immigration.

I'll invite the inevitable flak from those who think it is their "Right" to demand that others i.e. working ing people make life easy for them.
Such as bureaucrats who don't know the meaning of integrity, business people who see nothing wrong with deliberately making a loss & then claim tax write-off's, educated beyond their comprehension people who don't even know what their purpose is, professionals who seem to think that their worth has no bounds, the list of people getting paid by the taxpayers for nothing in return is rather long.
What is getting so-called democratic societies to their knees is the imbalance of value in public salaries in comparison to the benefits or rather the lack of them, to Nation building.
Socialism is the core of the dilemma. Socialism has been hijacked by greed & is exploited by politics. Democracy is a mere word, there is no society that runs by the rules of Democracy.
It's a mathematical impossibility.

individual,

Yes. Bureaucrats and socialism - the bane of the West. The bureaucrats seem to be running Australia because most of our politicians don't seem to have been weaned yet. No proper jobs. No experience. I listened to a truly revealing interview with that goat, Frydenberg, squirming an prevaracating when asked who's idea it was to give half a billion dollars to a barrier reef 'charity' that hadn't even applied for it. He kept saying 'the government', but it turns out that there were two bureaucrats in the room with the three main villian's (not mentioned previously) who were pulling the strings. It has been the dirty work of the minister's DEPARTMENT, not the minister himself, and certainly not the government.

The really ludicrous thing about the whole shonky affair is that the Barrier Reef Foundation has now been asked to MAKE A FORMAL APPLICATION for the $444 million that is already in their account - money which they still don't know how they are going to use, and never asked for in the first place!

ttnn: The really ludicrous thing about the whole shonky affair is that the Barrier Reef Foundation has now been asked to MAKE A FORMAL APPLICATION for the $444 million that is already in their account - money which they still don't know how they are going to use, and never asked for in the first place!

True. But would you rather see the money go to AIMS or Getup. Organizations riddled with Greens. The money would only used to support & pay Greenie demonstrators.

Jayb most of that money will go in executive salaries and perks.

I am sure they will need to helicopter out over the reef every fine day with selected passengers to see if anything is changing.

Democracy has characteristically produced societies
that have been relatively "humane, flexible, productive,
and vigorous." However democracy is also characterised by
"unsightly and factionalised squabbling by self-interested
short-sighted people and groups." Furthermore, the policy
outcomes often result from those best placed to "adroitly
pressure and manipulate the system."

It's no wonder citizens have grown more distant from
political parties, more critical of political elites and
political institutions and less positive towards government.

Of great concern for the future health of our democracy
is that these feelings of mistrust can broaden to include
the political regime and our political institutions.

It does appear to be a growing conviction that our political
system needs to change. Many Australians are disgruntled
by a system which does not appear to respond to their needs
and seems increasingly to be in the hands of elites more
interested in their own advancement than the general good.
As a result to those people our political system has less
and less legitimacy.

Fortunately there are optimists who do believe that it is
possible to re-design our institutions. But miracles don't
happen overnight - and we have to be careful what we choose
to get rid of.

We can criticise our outdated constitution, the
power-focused behaviour of our major political parties,
the disquieting alliance of our political parties with
corporations and large organisations, the control of our
political parties by privileged minorities, the seeming
irrelevance of much parliamentary debate and political
discourse in the media, the pervasive use of propaganda to
influence public opinion, the steady erosion of civil rights
and minority interests, the increasingly blatant politicisation
of the public service; the permanent state of vitriolic
antagonism between the major parties; the elevation of
executive secrecy above public discourse, the readiness of
government to mislead both the public and the parliament -
the winner takes all outcomes of elections which preclude the
input of minority opinion and the failure to enunciate and
plan for long term challenges we face as a community.

Whatever the ascribed causes of these problems it is clear
that changes to our political system are needed.

Jayb,

No. I would rather see the money come off our $518 billion plus national debt, on which we pay $17 billion interest yearly. I would also like to see some of it used for ways to achieve lower electricity prices, which have increased by 60% since we were told in 2015 that renewable energy would deliver CHEAPER power. Did you note that the organisation spends 42.5 cents of every dollar they get on administration?

Hi there Folks...

I really don't know why we've allowed our precious Country to be highjacked and corrupted by these evil political parties and groups who don't have the legitimate interests of the majority of Australians at their centre.

I'll make one prediction; for Australia it's now too late, we'll never recover from the likes of Malcolm TURNBULL who's doing his best to destroy this country brick by brick & stone by stone. TURNBULL is not a bad Prime Minister. He's positively evil, as such he should've been thrown our of Parliament yesterday.

A leader who resorts to treachery to gain power, is not a leader he's a nothing but a low life crim. I've yet to ever feel so much aversion or loathing for a 'leader' than for this individual. I prefer not to employ the term 'man' when describing TURNBULL. Please Mr TURNBULL, I implore you, even beg you, to immediately leave Parliament, before your wreck this country to a point it'll no longer be recognisable. Go and go now PLEASE!

Our greatest and most immediate threat is a SHORTIN Government. With TURNBULL, it's assured. With a new LNP Leader (Mr DUTTON or ors.) maybe we'll have a fighting chance.

$444 million would do a hell of a lot more good economocally & environmentally if it was used to redirect water inland thus reducing polluted run-off into the barrier reef.
Back to topic-there is no democracy to destroy, because what we're being told is Democracy is actually corruption & that needs destroying.
In a true democracy, people would accept the outcome of an election & then work together for the common good. As it stands, all oppositions do is saboytaging the Govt. How democratic is that ? In a real democracy we, the taxpayers would stipulate public servants' pay not the other way round.

Grab this days Hansard, look at Shortens anti racist speech, brilliant, then at Turnbulls reply, very good,both came as a result of that nitwits who was elected by Hansons mob but jumped ship to Katter maiden speech, too hear Bob Katter ABC Radio,this day, emerge himself in racism,one positive outcome is both sides declared this day our white Australia policy was wrong, both spoke for most of us, my respect for Foxy's view, but if both speak for most of us that is the best we can expect

Western democracy is being invaded by socialists that have taken over the Media and Welfare distribution. They do not understand that it is the wealthy and the entrepreneur who create employment and supply income to the Government. They believe wealth belongs to the Government to distribute. The socialist left currently are influenced by wacky university research that wants to be supposedly inclusive while destroying the mainstream culture. There is one value in democracy that makes the most workable social fluid: "all persons are equal so love your neighbour as much as yourself." That means sacrifice for their wellbeing as if you are doing it for yourself. I have not seen anything that works better. Currently it is every man for himself.

Ttbn

Surely you have worked out that Marxist don't believe in democracy. They are facist. Just look at the Antifa thugs and dummy spitters who are still throwing tantrums over Trumps victory. Who do you think hides behind those masks? Not just silly little female brats from unis!

Antifa is made up of fascist thugs, runner. They are the real McCoy: genuine fascists because they attempt to stop other people from speaking using violence – the epitome of fascism. They are masked, as you say, because they are cowards. If people want to go along to hear a speaker, these thugs are there to scare them off, or physically prevent the from entering a venue.

This thread is utterly ridiculous, as is the letter that inspired it!

High energy costs can certainly be a problem, but they're not a major factor in the viability of most industries, and certainly not a threat to democracy.
Our company taxes are low by historical standards. And of all the ways of increasing investment, low taxes are one of the most expensive. Either way, it's not a threat to democracy.

I could go on, but it might be better to look at what actually threatens democracy: the breakdown of the rule of law. There are many countries where the law of the land is being disregarded in favour of the will of authoritarian leaders. This makes it easy for those in power to stay in power - either by fooling the people, cheating in elections, or indefinitely postponing the elections.

O Sung Wu said- "With a new LNP Leader (Mr DUTTON or ors.) maybe we'll have a fighting chance."

Answer- I still think we need a majority anti-immigration in the senates both Fed and States (where they have an upper house).

But yes there have been approapriate things coming from Dutton recently. The fact that these things have been allowed to get out possibly means Turnbull has been involved. Whether Dutton would continue to do these things if he became the leader is uncertain but at least he is taking the risk of saying the "approapriate rather than the convenient" things. I haven't been following the players closely enough for perspicacity- however I agree that "Dutton is the best choice"- though I'd need to know his position on five top variables- Immigration, Global Businesses in Australia, Identity Politics, Socialism, Political Correctness, possibly others.

If only we could find a benevolent dictator.

Sometime I'll spend some time thinking on an issue before I respond, and I've got plenty to say on this topic.
- and a few things to say about what others think as well...

But firstly, all I want to do is remind everyone what I said here about leftist causes and victimhood.
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=19889&page=0#351774

You might've all thought I was being a little cryptic and nutty, but I want to give an example of why I said it.

http://smh.com.au/politics/federal/afraid-to-use-medicare-citizenship-queue-blows-out-300-per-cent-20180815-p4zxl0.html

Tell me did that article not sell me a story that people who aren't even Aussies yet are victims of this nations policies?

Selling Victimhood?
Am I right or am I wrong?

Now if you believe your a victim, your going to be justified into thinking it's ok to do all sorts of crap.

And in this environment we live in today your encouraged to start crap and do something about it because victimhood pays dividends.

I could ask you all to seriously think about what kind of society you want, but the real truth I believe is that none of us actually have that choice.
It really is a delusion.

Do you know why democracy is the perfect tool to destroy us?

Because we will accept what we did not ask for, thinking somehow we did.

Democracy doesn't ever really get any of us what we want, rather than it teaches all of us to always accept it and be subservient to the system when we never get what we want.

Pro's and Con's people.

Lets look at what are the key values of democracy:

1) The need for free and fair elections.
2) Freedom of speech.
3) Equality before the law.
4) Active citizen participation.
5) Protection of minority rights.

Also we need to be reminded as we contemplate the health of
our democracies that the evolution of modern representative
democracies was accompanied by a "powerful distrust of the
people," of the poor, the poorly educated and women, who
were initially excluded and had to fight to gain suffrage.

Democracy has generally functioned reasonably well when
assessed against competing forms of government and methods
for organising society.

Democracy has characteristically produced societies that
have been relatively "humane, flexible, productive, and
vigorous." However, democracy is also characterised by
"unsightly and factionalised squabbling by self-interested,
short-sighted people and groups."

Furthermore, the policy outcomes often result from
"special pleading" from those best placed to "adroitly pressure
and manipulate the system."

Yes, some citizens have grown more distant from political
parties, more critical of political elites and political
institutions and less positive towards government.

Of great concern for the future health of our democracy is
that these feelings of mistrust will have broadened to
include the political regime and our political institutions.
We need to be very careful in what we wish for - and what we
do. Listening to the siren calls of charlatans, demagogues,
and ideologues will destroy our country.

the key values of democracy:
Foxy,
If you're looking for an argument, you won't get one with this. The problem is that the loudest proponents for democracy are the least compliant with these values.
it's like putting the mad in charge of the mental home.

Foxy, We need to evaluate other forms of Government against Democratic values and ensure we have it right and refuse citizenship to anyone who is not prepared to live by those values. Socialist values is about self interest in the long run as is the behaviour of some under a democratic society.

Foxy said -
"Lets look at what are the key values of democracy:
1) The need for free and fair elections.
2) Freedom of speech.
3) Equality before the law.
4) Active citizen participation.
5) Protection of minority rights."

Answer- I wonder what Foxy would say if the population voted against protection of minority rights- contradiction.

This is a situation when you can't have both (1) and (5). Foxy might argue that (5) takes precedence- I believe that (1) has more validity.

I find the delineation of minorities fairly arbitrary which contradicts item (3).

There is a tension between the politics of envy and the politics of greed. Currently we have abandoned the teaching of Christianity that deals with that problem. Envy leads to theft, rape and murder which is idolatry of false gods, greed leads to avarice, gluttony [over indulgence] and self protection which is also idolatry of false gods. Currently Western society is gripped in the extremes of that tension. One wants what others have justly or greedily worked for: the other wants to accumulate as many toys around them as possible and not see others real needs. It has been the influence of the teachings of Jesus that has broken down that tension by the development of education for all, health and housing for all, food and clothing for all; not by stealing from the rich but by motivating those that have to care for one's neighbour. We have lost the motives of values that love: Love God, love neighbour: and prefer the motives of I'm only going to look after myself - selfishness.

At one stage in the early Jewish Church they tried communism but it failed because of selfishness. They failed because they abandoned the idea of work to prepare for the future. Thirty years after it started the Gentile Churches were supporting them. Pure socialism does not work because of selfishness, equally pure capitalism does not work equally because of selfishness. We have grown up in a system of "Looking after number ONE!" [without restraint] "God helps those that help themselves!" [Mostly to other peoples property]. Check the motives to welfare and income.

//Love God, love neighbour//

Well you've definitely got the first part sorted out; shame about the second. Still, one out of two ain't bad. It's just that I prefer it the other way around, when people love their fellow man more than their chosen deity.

Toni, a persons god is what they value as the essence of their life, the things they live by. Their spirit, their real character and actions the deep values of their soul. Christianity teaches love of the source of all things especially life and character. Most today are obsessed with self and how they desire others view them. Commercialism promotes this image, "you must have"! as the essence of life. So external content to inner self has become the most valuable acquirement. A proper understanding of one's inner self can only translate to truly loving one's neighbour.

Have a look at this Forum site: catallaxyfiles.com/2018/08/16/sanjeev-sabhlok-fraser-annings-ill-articulated-concerns-are-a-fight-for-australias-soul/

the noxious weed,

A most apt description of the Left by Sanjeev Sabhlok.

Should people who don't believe in democracy be afforded a right to vote?
If a socialist / communist wants the destruction of democracy why do we let them vote for it?

Armchair Critic- I don't have as much as issue with them voting as with the Socs trying to influence in the name of democracy.

Hey Canem Malum,
Yeah true that... Sometimes I'll have an idiotic thought and just throw it out there for consumption.

What about media deliberately obscuring facts and selling narrative and conjecture and a sea of liberal opinion as news to confuse people and remove them from the facts.

How do we deal with 'selective editing'?

What do we do with a weaponised cartel of media and big tech companies that don't believe in democracy?

If you want to foolproof democracy you must first highlight it's flaws.

If you want to foolproof democracy you must first highlight it's flaws.
Armchair Critic,
And who would be sane enough among those to whom the flaws are highlighted to, to understand?

Hey individual,
Arguments are won and lost on their own merits.
That's why the left are banning speech and censoring conservative websites.
The left cant argue the facts on their own merits, and in the media they've lost control of the narrative and the trust of the people.
They stop the discussion by calling it hate speech.

You'd think it'd be obvious to people:
The left ban speech and label anyone that doesn't agree with them fascist;
Whist the right support free speech.

Don't people think it's ironic that reporters report on banned words? But they don't report the fact they're taking a shotgun and blowing their own legs off - in that soon they'll be banned from reporting on other things?
That'd be the real story - the bigger picture.
But they support it because they're collaborators.
They've been indoctrinated into a Marxist line of thinking right at the university level just to pass the course.

We believe in 'Freedom of Speech' and 'Freedom of the Press' but what happens when the press are working as a cartel to ban speech?

*We believe in 'Democracy', but what if it's 'weaponised' against us within its flaws?*
- I hate that word 'weaponised', it reminds me of Hillary and she makes me sick.

Lets look at other flaws:

Freedom of Religion

What happens when they use UN immigration laws to deliberately push a religion that will not respect western values of democracy?
What happens to western values when western people become minorities in their own countries?

They stop the discussion and call it racism.

If people don't understand and recognise democracies flaws, then they won't be mindful of how it's being weaponised against us.

Democracy is a fair system, but its built on the assumption of good faith and that all the people believe in it and accept it.
It's not designed to protect against votes of people who don't believe in democracy, and who want to destroy it to create something else.
Didn't Erdogan once say "Democracy is like a bus - you reach your destination and get off?"

What happens if you give unemployed a cash handout instead of a job and also let them vote?
Then you risk those on welfare becoming a voting block that vote for more welfare.
Your going to have to cater to them in your policies.

I'm not necessarily saying it's wrong to give unemployed the right to vote or cash instead of a job for welfare, but it's a flaw.

Armchair Critic,
i have stated several times here that Welfare recipients & public servants on over $65,000/year should not be allowed to vote. They'll always vote Labor so even with a Coalition govt we're still plagued with the majority of public servants deliberately sabotaging the Govt's ability to care for the welfare of the Nation. Keeping it at $65-7ok would give pensioners & low income earners a more effective say.
When Qld got a conservative Govt many years ago a Nursing Union President once told me that she'll "do anything not to co-operate with that administration". That mentality is still very much present today among public servants.
Higher ranking bureaucrats should go out with the old Govt or accept reappraisal or even demotion if proven of lacking performance.

emaculating males have done as much harm to Western civilisation than marxist feminmist who are anti god, anti science, anti nature and often sexually deviant. It seems to take someone with courage like Trump to reverse this sickening trend.

runner,

You do realise that Trump is one of the biggest sexual
deviants ever - right?

Foxy,
Don't tell me he touched you too ? Or are you saying that because that's what Leftist are supposed to be saying according to their philosophy ?
I'm actually at a loss why they haven't accused him of Paedophilia yet. I mean wouldn't that be about the most effective kind of dirt that can be dug up ?

Pretty sure Trumps been on the 'Lolita Express'.
- And if you don't know what that is, google it.
Not sure if there's any evidence of wrongdoing though.

"You do realise that Trump is one of the biggest sexual deviants ever - right?"

Do you have any solid evidence for these claims Foxy?
But even if you did, so what if he is?

The only thing that really matters is whether it was consensual and that the people whom he shared relations with were of a legal age;
- though if he was unfaithful to his wife there is the matter of ethics surrounding that.

He wasn't campaigning for the job of church leader, and these facts only mattered to those who are disgruntled their own horse lost the race, and who want to smear.

'You do realise that Trump is one of the biggest sexual
deviants ever - right?'

yep like everyone else Foxy he will need to repent or perish. Since when did sexual deviancy become an issue for the left? I mean some of the Greens endorse bestiality and many voted to pervert marriage. Try talking policy for a change instead of demonising the individual. Trump has drastically cut funding to the deviant murderers at planned parenthood. That must be a good thing.

The whole Stormy Daniels thing - nobody mentions the fact that she was obviously extortion him, and then the left were using that to smear him.

Gentlemen,

I can see that you're really honouring this man.
I can't understand why - but you must have your
reasons, I guess.

you had no problem at all with Gillards morality Foxy. Hypocrisy blinds.

runner,

Read this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/15/us/politics/donald-trump-women.html

Foxy

I am sure one of your heroes would be Martin Luther King Jr. He was a very flawed man who was described as being into much deviant behaviour. No one however questions his influence on history. Trump was obviously a womaniser and into all sorts of deviant behaviour like many who reject Christ and His ways. I suspect Obamas behaviour was no better.

One of the most wicked Kings in Babylon was Nebuchadnezzar. Even in his debauchery he came to his senses and declared '(Dan 4:34) And at the end of days, I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up my eyes to Heaven, and my understanding returned to me, and I blessed the Most High, and I praised and honored Him who lives forever, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and His rule is from generation to generation.'

If it takes a womaniser and a deviant (assuming these alleghations are true) to save the lives of millions of helpless unborn, to recognise the true capital city of Israel and to uncover the charlatons of the gw fraud then so be it. Some more moral characters have not the backbone to do what was right in order to save their own skin.

Compare the backbone and results of Trump against Turnbull. You might just get it but I doubt whether you want to. By all means be the first (or 10 millionith) to cast the stone gainst Trump. Hopefully both you and him will find mercy as we all need it.

runner,

Now you've shamed me well and truly.

What a beautiful and unexpected Christian post from you.

Thank You.

More please.

Foxy

I am just thankful that when Jesus Christ died on that cross that He took my shame. Shame is our best friend and worst enemy. The failure to acknowledge it and deal with it I believe has led to much suicide among the young people today.

Bless you runner.

runner,
I believe that the unreasonable pressures of today's society mainly brought on by media & bureaucracy are the greater component in the tragic causes of youth suicide.

runner,
Do you really think Trump will save the lives of millions of helpless unborn? If so, how? ISTR reading elsewhere that the number of abortions tends to be higher when the Republicans are in power.

What good does recognising the true capital city of Israel actually do?

One thing's for sure: Trump won't uncover the charlatons of the gw fraud because they're his base! No matter how much Trump lies and refers to honest reporting as "fake news" it doesn't change what is actually true. Similarly no matter how much you listen only to the fraudsters and falsely accuse honest scientists of committing fraud, it doesn't change the fact that gw is an observed phenomenon and human activity is altering the composition of the atmosphere in a way that has a warming effect.

Aiden, what is the percentage that humans have had on the environment; compared to volcanoes, bush fires and sun spots?

gw is an observed phenomenon and human activity is altering the composition of the atmosphere in a way that has a warming effect.
Aidan,
Stating facts doesn't alter anything. Providing solutions would. It reminds me of this young workmate who went almost ape when i spilled about 20ml of petrol into the sand whilst cleaning a carburettor. He really raved about me polluting the ground only a day after he returned from a three-week motohome holday in NZ. Just like people carrying on about GW but using the computer to write about it.
Compared to Defence Force exercises pollution, consumerism is a very close second. Anyhow, it won't be too long now that all the low pressure we cause by the extraction of gas & oil that massive earthquakes will shake the hell out of the planet. Now all this human imact is being done in a democratic manner, we all agree to it because we all want the commodities & associated comfort.

Josephus,
Your question is incoherent, so if you want a proper answer then you'll have to rephrase it. But one thing I can tell you now is the counterintuitive fact that volcanoes actually have a cooling effect. This is because the heat emitted by the volcano itself is less than the heat foregone when sunlight is reflected into space by the dust they produce. And a breakdown has been observed in the relation between sunspot activity and temperature.

___________________________________________________________________________________

individual,
The solution's the relatively easy part. The much harder part is convincing people to implement it - because they're denying there's a problem to be solved!

It makes no difference whether I use my computer or my iPad to write about GW; either way we're not going to solve the problem by reverting to preindustrial methods. Indeed that wouldn't even be possible with the current population. Instead we should take advantage of technology and work to make everything environmentally sustainable.

AndI don't know were you got the idea that the small drop in pressure resulting from gas and oil extraction will "shake the hell out o the planet" but I know enough about geology to tell you it won't!

Aidan,
Well, that the extraction of gas & oil etc will cause the void to eventually give way is just something I think could happen just as many places at the edge of the abyss are rather vulnerable. A few more atomic tests may just be thing to trigger something.
As I said, I think it's not out of the question.
I was speaking with a nuclear chappie years ago & ask him what he thought of the idea instead of burying nuclear waste, throw it into live volcanoes. He told that would make the lava radioactive. But, wouldn't other hazardous waste be effectively distroyed ?
Anyhow, not really on topic anymore.
To destroy a Democracy all you have to do is to make the pro democracy crowd adhere to the democratic priniples. They'd hate it !

individual,
You assume a large void to be left, but that is not usually the case for three reasons (not all of which are applicable at all locations). Rocks above oil reservoirs deflect, there's sand in with the oil, and brine is pumped into the oil reservoirs.

Testing of nukes has triggered earthquakes before, but nobody's proposing testing them in oilfields.

Learn a bit more about geology, and you'll find your fears of catastrophic collapse are unfounded.

As for using volcanoes to destroy hazardous waste, it's technically possible, but it would be difficult to ensure the waste is subjected to a hot enough temperature for long enough. Use of concentrated solar heating would be more reliable.

What democratic principles do you think the pro democracy crowd would hate?

What democratic principles do you think the pro democracy crowd would hate?
Aidan,
The ones that require acceptance of majority vote over minority.

Individual, I think Aiden means legislate all opinions not majority as illegal, so we only have one party, eg extreme Left, communism, Islam. etc. There is no diversity of opinion in his view according to his statement. "What democratic principles do you think the pro democracy crowd would hate? Posted by Aidan". He is obviously anti democracy!