that's gold sharkfin.

I can play too,

I think she saw some guys who looked pretty cool, and thought she may be able to score some of the drugs they seemed to be using. She danced up close to some of them to get attention. One of the guys told her to piss off and seemed quite aggro, but there was a nice malleable guy she knew she could use to worm into the group.

The guys really didn't want to share, but she offered them the allure of sex, and they gave her a little bit so she would stop pestering and brining attention to their drug use.

When they failed to offer her any more, she ramped up the flirting, but resigned herself to the fact she would have to go back to their cabin to get any more.

When the second dose she was given finally started to have its affect she got quite horny, and she thought she'd even be happy to shag the ugly one if she couldn't have the cool one. After the ugly guy she shagged had passed out and she was still horny, she decided to jump on one of the cool guys and see if she could bring him to attention.

I think the guy she did shag was a lonely man, who wanted a woman who was interested in him and not just for his friend's drugs. He thought if only she had really wanted him, rather than his mate who had no interest. Sure she had sex with him, but he could tell he was just a last option, maybe even a sympathy fock. He really wanted to meet a nice girl on this cruise, and for a while he thought maybe he may get a girlfriend out of this, but all hope was lost when he spied on her trying to jump his comatose friend.

Did you like my story?

The truth will never be known, but the jury are left with more than our imaginations.

Benk: Thanks for those observations. I'd like to learn more.

Antiseptic: Sharkfin's "belief" has foundation:

<"Forensic scientist Doctor William Allender ... estimates the Brisbane woman consumed between seven and 18 grams of the drug, while a recreational user would usually take around two and a half grams.

He estimates Mrs Brimble consumed some of the drug while she was still in the disco earlier that night, and believes she died up to three and a half hours before medical assistance was called.

Earlier testimony said the medical team were called and arrived around 8am. This would put the time of death around 4:30am to 5:00am. This is the time frame witnesses said the cabin was full of naked bodies. One witness has said it was 5:00am when Wilhelm showed her a picture of Brimble on the floor naked.

The time frame is important, because it means that if she was involved in a sexual act around 3am to 5am, it was definately without her consent, as she would have been suffering from the overdose at that time.

Dr Allender... told the court that he believes her chances of surviving without medical assistance were virtually nil.">

First Aid Quiz:

So, if you're having sex with someone and they start frothing at the mouth and soiling themselves, do you at the moment of realization:

(a) Invite others including strangers to come in and look.
(b) Snap some pics with your digital camera and wander off to show your pics to a fellow (female) traveller.
(c) Call a conference with your friends to discuss options.
(d) Offer your genitals to a passerby.
(e) Get a mate or two to help you shower and dress the unconscious or deceased person.
(f) Call for medical assistance.

http://www.cruisebruise.com/Dianne_Brimble_Page_7.html
http://www.cruisebruise.com/Dianne_Brimble_Page_8.html

Let's say that there is no sex and it isn't Ms. Brimble but just another bloke cabin mate. You come across him in the same state of non-composure described - what action do you take (from those listed)?

Thank you PYNCHME for those links to more files on the Mrs. Brimble case, I didn’t only read page 7&8 I read it all.

ANTISEPTIC-<We’ve already seen that you know nothing whatever about GHB or the context in which it is used.>

If you and Houellebecq are such authorities on this drug how come Forensic Scientist Doctor William Allender concurs with my version of the timeframes of administration of GHB to Missus Brimble and also my assumption that she couldn’t have jumped on Leo Silvestri to rape him because her body would have been pretty much in shut down or near death by then.
Leo Silvestri who was standing in the corridor as the medical team worked on Mrs Brimble was heard to say we f---ked her , we kicked her out of bed and she died. On the record he claimed he was raped, as he slept by her.

Peter Hawthorne a security officer on the Pacific Sky saw an “extremely” intoxicated Mrs. Brimble(read overdosed on GHB)leaving the ships Pizzeria at 4.15am with Wilhelm, the medical team arrived at 8.00am and the forensic scientist said she had died up to three or three and a half hours earlier. That puts the time of death at about 5.00am or there abouts.
That means in her extremely intoxicated state at 4.15am until her time of death at 5.00am these men all had sex with her and probably didn’t even care that she had lapsed into unconsciousness because that’s the state they expected her to be in. They may have even continued raping her while she was dead. Witnesses said when they looked in the door of the cabin opened by Wilhelm at 5 or 5.30 there were naked bodies everywhere.

Let's look at this logically - you people are claiming this person had at least 3 recreational doses, yes? In other words, these guys, out of their limited supply (it's not cheap), gave her 3 days worth of their own supply? Generous fellows!

Not only that, but they managed to get it to her surreptitiously on 2 occasions, each time giving her 50% more than they'd consume themselves and she never noticed the remarkably salty taste in her drink? Try that at home - put a teaspoon of salt into your favourite tipple and see whether you notice. Tell us how you get on, won't you?

The fact is that there are all sorts of confounding factors in relation to GHB, including the fact that it uses the same dehydrogenase enzymes as alcohol, meaning that if she was already drunk, it would not be broken down and also including the fact that there is almost no data available on endogenous levels of GHB.

Did it not occur to you that the good doctor had a huge range of uncertainty in his estimate? His estimate range was between 7 and 18 grams, which is his way of saying he has no real idea. indeed, his upper bound is 6-30 times a recreational dose and would be almost instantly lethal.

No cigar children, go and learn some more and try harder next time.

The message is still "don't accept drugs from people you don't know and take some personal responsibility for your own safety and you'll be right".

pynchme:"she would have been suffering from the overdose at that time."

Nope, GHB has a very steep dose-response curve and she may well have been "fine", albeit p1ssed, which she had become willingly. On another day it might have worked out fine and all she'd have got was bruised genitalia. If she'd not died, she'd no doubt have had a recovery night and then got back into it the day after.

No one disputes the men involved were sleazebags. Would you have gone off with them, pynchme?

Hi Sharkfin,

I was glad to see someone (you) raise a hand in defence of this dear woman. She might have made some mistakes in life but we don't all have our less than stirling moments aired for public scrutiny while some assholes decide whether our lives have value. It's clear that people who knew her best - her ex and current partner; children and other family regarded her extremely highly and loved her dearly.

Antiseptic:

Why shouldn't she agree to have alcohol, even drugs or sex with someone ? You sound like one of those tut-tutting dowagers who you always hold in contempt.

Partying, drinking and drugging is something you ( and your mini-u Houellebecq) do isn't it. In fact you both skite about doing these things regularly - being in the know and all. Why is her life of less worth for doing it when you do it yourself. Hypocrites.

I think I recall you once saying that if a woman isn't plied with alcohol nothing (ie sex) is gonna happen. I take it sex with unconscious people your usual or preferred experience.

I'm sure that these fellows were a picture of charm. Was she to know that they were travelling in a pack in some sort of group hunting expedition ?

You're always saying (and mini-u has said similar) that women shouldn't assume that every man is a rapist or of bad character. You assure us that the majority of men are decent and caring. Now you're going to blame her for sharing a belief in your propaganda.

So which is it:

1. Women should assume that every man they meet is a predator and decline one night stands.

2. Women should assume every man they meet is a decent bloke and predators (even 8 in a bunch) are a rarity; and accept one night stands.

3. Women AND MEN should keep their pants up until they get to know each other in the light of day and preferably in a sober state.

Antiseptic: I don't see anything logical in people, especially chronic pot smoking poly drug using accountants without medical degrees who have a vested interest in promoting exploitative behaviours, purporting to have more knowledge on medical topics than a medical practitioner. Although they too make mistakes; I think Dr. Whatshisname is more qualified than you to determine and present toxicological and other findings.

According to Thomas, Bonner and Gascoigne (1997) BMJ 1997;314:35 (4 January), illegally manufactured {gamma}-hydroxybutyrate producing 40 ml (3-9 doses) may contain a dose as small as 3 g or one as potentially toxic as 20 g.

Btw: (1) More than one of them was carrying drugs and offering them about. (2) During and after the fatal interlude with Ms. Brimble, a bottle of coloured liquid was seen in the cabin.

Also FYI - GHB produces effects within 15 mins.