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The Forum > Article Comments > Electric vehicles - why we need them > Comments

Electric vehicles - why we need them : Comments

By Mike Pope, published 3/3/2009

A common belief is that Australia is self-sufficient in oil, able to meet all its needs from domestic oilfields and can export its surplus. Not true.

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A silly article that posits that, just because renewable sources of electricity exist, they will be able to drive our car fleet if only it was electric. If you look at the scale of the current renewables and what would be needed to drive a car fleet you will see it is hopeless. The only way to possibly go electric for a while would be to expand out production of coal-based electricity and that would only increase CO2 emissions relative to liquid fuels, not decrease them. Read "Renewable Energy Cannot Sustain a Consumer Society": http://www.energybulletin.net/node/34520
and then get real!
Posted by michael_in_adelaide, Tuesday, 3 March 2009 9:59:29 AM
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A very timely article, what with applications for scale-up funding for renewable energy projects from the $500 million Renewable Energy Fund to be called for in the first half of 2009, nearly half of which time has already passed.

At long last the focus is placed upon the fact that "the cost of electricity for propulsion is far cheaper than the cost of an ethanol-petrol mix, even at the relatively affordable prices of February 2009". It would be tremendously helpful for the public debate that has not yet happened to have this disparity quantified to at least some extent. The significance of the decisions shortly to be made as to which renewable energy projects are to receive scale-up funding could then be better understood by the Australian public.

A prospective changeover of significant numbers of vehicles to electricity is important with respect to extracting maximum efficiency from present generating capacity, let alone future renewable energy fueled electricity generation. Much of this under-utilized capacity is still in public hands thankfully, and it is to be hoped that by keeping it that way it may be possible to ensure that the benefits to be gained from the changeover remain entirely in Australian hands and pockets.

'Big Oil' is going to be looking upon the exploitation of this gap as its rightful turf, and the provision of renewable energy as being its own future. Privatisation of electricity generation and distribution was premature. Australia should have a turf war over renewable energy, and make sure it wins.

The author's exasperation expressed in his concluding sentence would be shared by many. Industrial mobilization as if at war should be the order of the day, with the automotive industry switching to, and achieving economies of scale in, organic rankine cycle engine production. Affordable ORC engines will be a key to exploiting Australia's natural advantage in its suitability for solar pondage, the most cost-effective solar energy collection method known.

The Australian consuming public will be paying the reneweable energy piper. Those same consumers should call the renewable energy integration tune.
Posted by Forrest Gumpp, Tuesday, 3 March 2009 10:12:50 AM
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I think understanding the gross inefficiency of transforming any material (e.g. coal or nuclear), wind or solar energy into sufficient electrical form to both build and also run a national supply of electric vehicles, needs to be properly understood.

Michael of A‘s link to Ted Trainer’s ‘Renewable energy cannot sustain a consumer society’, is interesting and likely to be a worthy read. As Trainer says, “…the quest to keep the unsustainable growth-based system going by renewable energy sources is a fools' errand”. Our real global predicament is over-consumption. Unless we address this fundamental issue we chase our proverbial arse. High-tech is not the answer - the low-tech options provide a solution…

“…we must move to far more materially simple lifestyles...We have to come to see as enjoyable, living frugally, recycling, growing food, ˜husbanding' resources, making rather than buying, composting, repairing, bottling fruit, giving surpluses and old things to others, making things last, and running a relatively self-sufficient household economy...” – Ted Trainer. This may all sound a little idealistic, but the current economic crash and climate shift will make such behavioral/ cultural change neccessary.
Posted by relda, Tuesday, 3 March 2009 11:01:18 AM
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Electric vehicles (EVs) are not a solution.

The global economy is collapsing in a permanent ever-worsening depression: http://survivingpeakoil.blogspot.com/2009/02/peak-oil-and-global-economy.html

Very few people will be able to afford a new EV, especially with very low trade-in values on the old gasoline powered car, and new cars will cost more and more, as the price of oil (required for their manufacture) goes up.

EVs are not very efficient. More than half of the fossil energy (coal/natural gas/oil) is lost in power plants in wasted heat; energy is lost in electric power transmission lines; and then 25% of the energy is lost in the battery.

It is time to prepare for a world without oil.

http://www.peakoilassociates.com/POAnalysis.html
Posted by cjwirth, Tuesday, 3 March 2009 11:25:16 AM
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EVs sound good in theory but their lack of range won't suit Australia's long distances and their cost won't suit tougher economic times. Those who can pay $40k for a plug in hybrid vehicle and use to it to commute clearly live in the inner suburbs and are not short of cash. That just leaves the other 80% such as the low paid night shift worker who lives 60km out of the CBD. I suggest we need better or more flexible public transport. Inexpensive electric scooters could be used for short trips. Groceries could be home delivered. When oil is gone synthetic petrol engined cars could be hired for special trips. I don't think the battery swap type of EV will catch on; imagine swapping a battery 20 times on a trip from Sydney to Melbourne.

Therefore the auto industry bailouts could be money wasted as they will decline in lockstep with oil production. The future of personal mobility is trains, scooters and hire cars, not private EVs.
Posted by Taswegian, Tuesday, 3 March 2009 11:53:56 AM
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I found Pope's article underwhelming. He makes forecasts concerning oil prices which I will let pass on the grounds that any guess by me would be just as silly as any guess by him. It was supposed to be the end for fossil fuels when prices shot past $100 per barrel.
Leaving aside petrol price forecasting, electric cars simply won't cut it as any sort of answer - not yet anyway. Not only are they more expensive to buy then petrol cars they are more expensive to run, and arguably just as polluting - in part because the whole battery pack has to be replaced after 10 years or so. The electricity to run them also has to come from the main power grid. More research is required.
If Pope is really worried about Australia's fuel import bill then perhaps he should advocate that motorists mass convert to LPG. We have plenty of that fuel and consumers may even save money. There may also be a saving in emissions but I am unclear on that point.
Posted by Curmudgeon, Tuesday, 3 March 2009 12:50:47 PM
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