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The Forum > Article Comments > Islamic challenge to Indonesiaís democracy > Comments

Islamic challenge to Indonesiaís democracy : Comments

By Sadanand Dhume, published 27/10/2008

Democracy in Indonesia remains highly vulnerable to determined anti-democratic movements.

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In seeking to impose Islam on all Indonesians Muslim fundamentalists behave like those who wish to have the Bible as law of the land:

Deuteronomy 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

Note that in the above strangers and servants are obligated to follow the commandment regardless of their individual beliefs.
Posted by david f, Monday, 27 October 2008 10:57:14 AM
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I wonder if David Kriss' prophecy has a chance of getting up?

http://www.stormharvest.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=650=Itemid=66

For the sake of the north we ought to build our defences a bit better.
Posted by Gibo, Monday, 27 October 2008 1:16:58 PM
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Dear David.. the idea of a day of rest once a week... wow :) thats so threatening.

I guess some of those who value money more than health will worry about it.

Haggai the prophet addressed the lust for 'more more more' when he said:

"Is it a time for you yourselves to be living in your paneled houses, while this house remains a ruin?"

Reminds me of what I think when I drive through Toorak/Sth Yarra.

Isaiah says:

8 Woe to you who add house to house
and join field to field
till no space is left
and you live alone in the land.

9 The LORD Almighty has declared in my hearing:
"Surely the great houses will become desolate,
the fine mansions left without occupants.

Sounds like what happened to peoples superannuation.

A friend at Gym last night said "In the last 3 yrs I've lost ALL my contributions AND all my company contributions to my super" aaaah yes.. "join house to house" add to one's share portfolio..... and..neglect...ignore the Almighty, and we will end up sowing but not reaping.. the moth and caterpillar will destroy, rust will corrode.

Jesus told a parable about those who "store up for themselves"

Micah said:

"You will sow but you will not reap. You will tread the olive but will not anoint yourself with oil; And the grapes, but you will not drink wine. 6:15

In regard to the possibility of terrorism, we are often like that.. we busy ourselves in our own exploits, oblivious that the Ambassador from Babylon who Hezekiah showed all the temple treasures to has gone back to pass it to his king.. who thereafter invaded and took it all.

Hezekiah was relieved.....that it wouldn't happen in HIS life, but as the Lord lives.....it happened.
Posted by Polycarp, Tuesday, 28 October 2008 7:33:11 AM
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Polycarp wrote:

Dear David.. the idea of a day of rest once a week... wow :) thats so threatening.

Dear Polycarp,

Such statement is consistent with your downplaying of history.

You continue to ignore the reality. Christianity in control was terribly threatening. The Inquisition, the Crusades, the massacres of Jews and other non-Christians, the wars of the Reformations and other manifestations of Christian control were horrible. With the Enlightenment and growth of secular government European humanity moved out from Christian control. Applied Christianity struck back with the Holocaust.

You choose to ignore history. However, from the historical record of Christianity there is much more reason to fear Christian control than to fear Islamic control.

Actually separation of religion and state is best. Government should neither encourage or discourage religion of any kind.

The School Chaplaincy Program should be ended and the chaplains replaced by trained counsellors. Aid to non-public schools should be eliminated.
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 28 October 2008 8:03:51 AM
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Deuteronomy 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

Polycarp wrote:

Dear David.. the idea of a day of rest once a week... wow :) thats so threatening.

Dear Polycarp,

Unfortunately you miss the point completely. It is an injustice for people to have to observe the commandments of a religion they donít belong to regardless of what those commandments are.

Of course most Christians donít observe the Sabbath. When the Ten Commandments were written the Sabbath was Saturday. Most calendars start with the first day of the week on Sunday. The calendar observes the Sabbath but not Christians. Of course itís unreasonable to expect Christians to follow the Ten Commandments. They donít even observe the religion of the Jew named Jesus.

The period of Christian control in Europe is called the Dark Ages for good reason. Renewed Christian control could usher in a new Dark Age. Christian control according to its bloody record is a much more fearful prospect than Islamic control. If one ignores history one is more likely to repeat it.
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 28 October 2008 12:50:08 PM
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Hi David...

"Christianity in control was terribly threatening"

Indeed. Primarily because power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, irrespective of religion.

The problem was not the faith, but those holding the reigns of power.

I don't disagree with your statement, I just disagree that it was 'Christian' :)

I also would prefer that our mob stayed out of the corridoors of power as much as possible, but in this real world it is unavoidable.
Just like for the Roman Empire, when a society is so transformed by a new belief, it is inevitable that one cannot guarantee the purity of motives of anyone who has power.

The problematic aspect of our faith (for politics) is that it depends on a day by day, moment by moment walk with the Lord. At times we diverge, and God help those who might be under our power if we diverge too far at the time, or.. if there are those who have claimed 'born again' status when they are in reality of the flesh.

If our Lord, the Messiah, wished to set up an earthly political kingdom, he could have done it, but he would not be walking on water...he would have been walking on the corpses of his enemies.
Posted by Polycarp, Tuesday, 28 October 2008 1:56:57 PM
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