On that day, second reading in the victorian parliament, every peoples-representative knew what was at stake...under 24weeks the_unborn_child life to continue or not placed in the hands of mums...combine that with staggering annual abortion rate...and you have the indecent given state power to act indecently without consequence/secrecyhttp://dictionary.reference.com/browse/indecent...

35to47 for bill...now read the transcripts of day...every representative 'for' spoke with 'unbalanced self interest' for mumss...only mums interest mattered, unborn_child+father+community not mentioned or improperly devalued...and considering these representives were elected by ordinary common people from victorian community is shocking in their deceit...for if they upfront declared their true state then no society of ordinary decent people would have entrusted their 'common_power' to them...so the 'deceitful' supporting 'indecent'...'Nationals frontbencher Jeanette Powell, who hails from the ultra-conservative seat of Shepparton, voted for the bill and gave one of the better received pro-choice speeches."A number of people have asked me, 'Who speaks for the baby?'," she told parliament. "The answer, I believe, is that the mother speaks for the baby, and we need to respect that right, whether we agree or disagree with the decision they make.http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24327696-5006785,00.html

and 'bill proponent and Women's Affairs minister Maxine Morand said no woman wanted to be in the situation where she had an unplanned or difficult pregnancy."Many women desire a happy comfortable future with someone who loves them but unfortunately that's not the reality in every case," Ms Morand told parliament before the vote.http://news.theage.com.au/national/vic-abortion-bill-clears-first-hurdle-20080911-4dxy.html...do you see the contorted reasoning in this...'loving relationshi8p' combined with killing an unborn child who is full of unconditional love and attached to natural parents...use of emotive terms only when it self-benefits...

its a sad day for victoria...if we are a society of oridinary decent people then we should impeach every one of those representatives...then put in balanced_decent_people and re-debate this major issue to society...

Sam
Ps~noticed...He said there was "raft upon raft" of amendments for MPs to consider..."Give us time to consider, to understand, to consult with the community and experts on these amendments," he begged parliament...plea was rejected...seems bill already known to succeed on day even before debate by behind-door-dealings...

Sam said

<<Its a sad day for victoria...if we are a society of oridinary decent people then we should impeach every one of those representatives...then put in balanced_decent_people and re-debate this major issue to society...>>

A great three-point plan Sam,

1. Jail anyone who exercises their conscience in the WRONG way.
2. Then appoint replacements who will vote the RIGHT way.
3. Debate the issue again so as to get it RIGHT.

Perhaps we could add a fourth plank to your plan to make it more efficient.

4. Abolish Parliament altogether and run the State through a Theocractic Council of Fundamentalists WHO ALWAYS KNOW WHAT'S RIGHT.

Only one drawback I can think of Sam...help me out mate. We might blow the budget on all the extra police and para-militaries we could require to keep people at bay who want to exercise free choice and have got used to freely electing their representatives.

From the article “But the present political leaders in Victoria do not intend to preserve social peace. They intend to crash through our fragile truce and declare an escalation in the culture wars.”

This is of some interest to anyone who wants to debate the issue and to challenge the “social peace”

http://www.theage.com.au/news/National/Poll-backs-abortion-laws/2005/02/15/1108230007300.html

ONLY “17 per cent believed it should be less accessible.”

Which suggests the demands of the anti-abortion brigade are disproportionally loud, relative to their overall popular representation and either public opinion has shifted radically or they are lying through their teeth in their claim:

http://www.righttolife.asn.au/media_releases/20060205.htm

(in their last media release) “new poll shows majority oppose 'social' abortion - 05 February 2006”

tell you what, you stop bombing pregnant women and then we can talk about providing education and health care for all children.

those same right-to-life republicans are the support of war on civilians in the middle east, ragheads apparently not having a right to life.

as for killing fetuses, i'm for it. so much more convenient than waiting for them to grow up enough to steal a car and crash it, killing half a dozen. plus they eat too much, and demand fancy shoes at frequent intervals.

humans have always killed some people, some groups. even buddhist societies stray from the path often enough. why get excited about reducing the birthrate close to the source, it's not like there is any shortage of people.

If anyone googles abortion laws in Australi, they will find it is a dogs breakfast. It all needs simplifing and uniformity.

I am not a pro lifer or religous but am having trouble coming to grips with this abortion on demand up to 24 weeks thing. If we can save a premature born baby at 24 weeks it just does not seem right to abort it at that stage.

We have many contraception methods available and the morning after pill. In addition, if there was a time of,say, 12 weeks for abortion on demand, with exceptions for serious mothers health, I would think that should be sufficient. I cannot think of reasons why a woman would need longer to determine whether she wants to have the child or not.

However, I don't think this debate is over by a long chalk.

This is Off topic but DEMOS Comment is Off-topic but truely contemptible and but need of response

DEMOS “those same right-to-life republicans are the support of war on civilians in the middle east, ragheads apparently not having a right to life.”

Ah yes, perfect timing, DEMOS, reminding us all of the evils of USA, the day after the anniversary of 11 September 2001.

Do you remember where you were when it happened?

I do

Somehow DEMOS statement loses its impact when you see film of people leaping several hundred feet, to their deaths trying to escape the flames caused when

“some middle east ragheads”

hijacked and flew American jets, carrying American passengers and American crew into an American building, in an American City.

Somehow, it highlights how heartless, cynical and tasteless a gratuitous, throwaway comment can be -

I guess, in DEMOS eyes, the people who died at the hands of those valiant terrorist "ragheads" are equally ‘throwaway’.