Oh my god people are becoming so soft. When this country faces a real crisis we are in serious trouble. FFS they are a bunch of roos....theres millions of them.

"perhaps even fenced, crossing routes from one area to another using scent and food to encourage the animals?"
Hey about we build them houses and give them TVs to watch while we're at it. Maybe we could watch the footy together with them on a Friday night BBQ over some kangaroo steaks....ooops problem solved

"A genuinely open and ethical public debate could have expanded the options beyond the “to cull or not to cull?” "
Yes I wasn't given the BBQ or not to BBQ option

"There is no way to hide the fact that killing healthy animals is not very pleasant"
Debateable.

"these kangaroos must be killed for the greater ecological good"
Or just for plain fun...

"If you do not see the killing and heartbreaking distress of the animals"
Then you need better shooters.

The time given to a few kangaroos being shot is ridiculous. More are killed every few days by cars than the 400 shot. It is a pity more are not concerned about the the babies murdered in the womb. That is something worth lobbying about.

Isn't it strange that Australians fear and hate their wildlife so much, and regard any attempt to save them as the work of girlie softies? The fact is that those who want kangaroos killed don't mind the animal being a national symbol, but are scared of the real thing. How many of those who want to shoot them have actually rescued an injured animal, raised a joey? None, I bet. That would be just too girlie. They wouldn't know a kangaroo or a joey unless they ran over them.
Australia has the notoriety for being the greatest destroyer of mammals in the world. It's so un-Australian to kill these animals; the roos were here long before humans. They are more Australian than a mug with a few tinnies. I wonder if these people should leave the country and live somewhere where there are no kangaroos, no wild animals, and only factories and brick veneer.I
It's going to take a long time to get the thugs out of this country. To the wild life thugs -- I suggest you go to look at the Canberra cull if you like so see killing and animal abuse.

If it is “… so un-Australian to kill these animals…” wildkanga, who is actually doing the culling – foreigners?

Indigenous Australians hunted kangaroos for thousands of years; professional shooters regularly kill them; we eat their low fat meat.

There are more kangaroos than people

I can't see what benefit escape routes for the kangaroos would have been in the long term, other than to hand off the problem. Dogs, vehicles and graziers with legally obtained cull quotas would have killed most of them anyway.

I fail to see why kangaroos are sacrosanct just because they are a native animal, and the 'national' animal. All the animals we eat are native to some country, we just don't happen to have domesticated the kangaroo. Perhaps we should be congratulated for preserving roos in such numbers while other national animals (such as the US bald eagle) lurched towards extinction.

I would much rather the effort being put into the Canberra roo cull, by both sides, was redirected to looking after endangered wildlife and habitat.

In our area we have a big problem with Kangaroo's eating our crops. We might as well put our cattle into the paddocks where we are trying to grow wheat seeing that the roos just jump the fence. 30-50 Kanngaroos in a paddock can do alot of damage finacnially especially in droughs like this one.

”How many of those who want to shoot them have actually rescued an injured animal, raised a joey? None, I bet.”
WildKanga, you would lose your shirt if you put it on that bet.

"It's going to take a long time to get the thugs out of this country. To the wild life thugs -- I suggest you go to look at the Canberra cull if you like so see killing and animal abuse."

The "animal abuse" was locking a large number of animals in an area without enough feed and letting them continue to breed. Further "animal abuse" was perpetrated by delaying any humane actions by insisting that the DOD investigate the process of relocating the animals, despite there being no where willing to take them. So the protestors have unwittingly caused more animal abuse than would have happened had they just left tehm alone.

The killing is going on now and is humane. Far more so than what happens to any animal you have ever eaten.

I am a softie. That's why I think continuing to treat these poor animals they way they have been and finally putting them out of their misery is the right thing to do.

Adam Henry's excellent article is a timely warning on how wildlife in Australia is being managed.

Successive Australian governments clearly have been abject failures in sustaining a healthy biodiversity.

These governments, captured by the cattle and sheep industry, have shown little regard for native animals.

Now the kangaroo, unsuitable for live exports is regarded as vermin. Is it because their numbers exceed the quotas or market requirements for commercial slaughter?

So cull we must, this being the "necessary evil and the greater 'good'."

Live exports of feral animals include goats, deer, buffalo, camel and horses and numbers are increasing, therefore, I suspect that in the near future, these animals, due to their dollar value, will be better protected than the kangaroo.

In the meantime, man's clovenhoofed commercial animal has chewed its way through Australia, trashing the landscape, remaining oblivious to the fact that climate change is now, not 50 years into the future.

The owners of commercial animals are vociferously objecting to kangaroos highjacking THEIR properties. After centuries of occupying and managing the land, what do these owners suggest?

European settlement is responsible for the extinction of the trylacine, the kangaroo's only efficient predator. And while the dingo is reasonably efficient at reducing kangaroo numbers, we have set about poisoning this animal with relish in a bid to protect sheep and cattle.

So while we set about slaughtering the predator's predator, the extinctions of other native fauna and flora are rapidly increasing. Other species, the victims of man's killing lust, are increasing.

"Is there anywhere in Australia where they have explored the use of safe, perhaps even fenced, crossing routes from one area to another using scent and food to encourage the animals?"

None that I know of Mr Henry. Generally, it's shoot, trap or poison and to no avail but then wildlife corridors, animal deterrents and humane management are not priorities of our Australian governments.

As a result, the international community is judging Australia by its hypocrisy and immorality which is thinly veiled under a mask of "sound" economic management.

While I disagree with many of the sentiments expressed by the animal rights lobby, I can understand that they believe in their cause. What I find offensive is NOT that those opposed to the cull have that opinion, but that those same people will, without this same regard, label those of us who disagree with their stance “lustful killer” with total disregard for the real argument
The kangaroos were NOT in their native habitat.The fact that the kangaroos were over-breeding was due entirely to the situation that existed in this unnaturally protected habitat.
It was necessary to solve the problem of too many animals in too small an area.
Kangaroos are NOT human nor do they have human emotions. Yes they feel pain and fear.but this is not a reason to remain inactive in the face of an untenable situation. The kangaroos could not be left to suffer a slow painful death from starvation. THAT would have been true cruelty.
There were few reasonable alternatives to the problem. Relocation had its own considerable problems. Where do you relocate them to (Bearing in mind that the general population of kangaroos is too large and under pressure from drought)? Sterilisation was not a viable option, and would have caused huge stresses on the animals if implemented.
Finally, I do not believe it cruel to kill the kangaroos. Death in the wild is a natural part of the cycle. To kill them with the MINIMUM of trauma was the responsibility of the people performing the task and they performed the task professionally.
I do not like seeing animals suffer, but I am mindful that sometimes the alternatives to killing the animals is less palatable in the long term when the consequences of those alternatives are more suffering of those same animals.
Finally, I stress that MY position is that the DEATH of the animal in itself is NOT cruelty, assuming that the animal does not suffer unduly.
I understand many who read this will disagree, that is healthy! I understand and respect that you have different opinions to mine, please return that respect.

It is the convoluted mindset that gets me ''to do good, you might have to engage in necessary evil".

Aint it grand how people can defend things that are clearly wrong by cloaking it to a greater good

Im not sure wether to laugh or cry at the comment''The kangaroos were NOT in their native habitat.'' yes Canberra airforce base is'nt in australia mate.[but we know what you mean ,unmentioned in previous posts is that the biggest reason given was they COULD damage a jet.

but we get back to the greater good debate there dont we ,but really where is the greater good? its not as if the runways couldnt be fenced off [aparently by seeing the cull on tv ,they were all herded into a compound] ,

That 'fence' seems to have held the national symbol long enough to shoot them with a tranquilising dart one at a time ,and move them out of the compound one by one , then dispatch them via a long and stressfull period [and you say we dont do torture in oz?]

Shooters with spotlights could have quietly dispatched them ,with a lot less fuss , but of course we dont have sharp shooters [or snippers] in our armed forces ,one can only assume it was a deliberated provocation [or destraction] [scince when does the air FORCE need act permission]

Any way ive had my say [pity the kangeroos couldnt]
but then we are so good at killing for a percieved greater GOOD ,and creating distractions to keep the people busy [on other things]

These posts make very depressing reading. It seems a lot of Australians have no regard at all for our national emblem. They're a cruel mob.
The fact is 3.8 million kangaroos were shot last year and over one million of these were adult females.
Over one million pouch joeys were bashed to death and another million older joeys at foot were left to starve to death or be torn apart by foxes or wild dogs.
This is the world's largest and most cruel wildlife slaughter and it's happening right here in Australia.
A full time professional shooter phoned me recently to tell me that he has been shooting 70% females for the last year and can't even make a living as he can't find enough to shoot. He's looking for another job.
He too is sickened by killing the babies.
The populations are crashing and will crash even further with the high quotas and never ending drought.
Six species of kangaroo are already extinct, one from hunting, others will surely follow.
Our new Rudd government doesn't even care.

Yes I too am disturbed at the indiscriminate taking of the female kangaroo RICHIROO.

Whilst haydn leonovich has posted a clinical and accurate account of the current culling, he has failed to allude to the mismanagement of the cull.

That these animals were allowed to breed, in an unnatural habitat, until they reached "plague" proportions to starving point, on lands where there was no escape, reveals the indifferent and callous approach of authorities to our wildlife.

Immunocontraception has been available at least since the '90s. A sterilisation programme before the numbers increased would have seen far fewer objections than the current protests over the recent slaughter.

Deliberately incarcerating and allowing these animals to breed, coupled with the knowledge that they would in the end, be slaughtered and buried, further exposes Australia as a callous nation.

Forward planning, it seems, applies only to those animals which have high commercial value. These are the animals (together with the crops which feed them) that have desecrated the lands of this arid nation and stripped the countryside of natural vegetation which was once available to our native species.

If there is a plague of kangaroos, as the rural community insists, why are cull quotas rarely filled?

No wonder this country is currently on the nose.

Alzo suggests killing kangaroos "for just plain fun" ...I'd cross the road if I saw him coming.
Candide thinks kangaroos CAN be domesticated "we don't happen to have domesticated the kangaroo". They CANNOT be. A species needs to have certain tendencies before humans can domesticate it. Kangaroos cannot be handled, they stress and die easily if handled. Cannot be herded, are dangerous if cornered, have hardly any flesh on them, are full of worms both in stomach and muscles, carry toxoplasmosis. Are shot and gutted in dusty, fly infested bush at night. Transported hanging in open trucks over vast distances to chillers. Eat undercooked kangaroos at your own risk and if you overcook their flesh - it's like leather! After 200 years of european activity in australia, hardly anyone who knows the facts will eat kangaroos. Kangaroos cannot be farmed. Only uninformed people swallow the 'good lean meat' spin. Apart from that, the abandonment of orphaned joeys to die a slow death is inhumane and cruel. Kangaroos have a far greater potential as tourism drawcards and in the outback we'd make far more profit and produce jobs out there around wildlife photo safaris. The tourism industry is worth $6 billion to this country (against a paltry $280 million from the Kangaroo killing industry) and has the potential to be worth much more if we stop the senseless killing and create wildlife corridors for kangaroos and other species. Climate change and increased temperatures reduce male kangaroo fertility. Tim Flannery in his book 'Country' quoting Alan Newsome's research re that, stated "It also filled me with fear for the future of the large kangaroos in the face of global warming"

Kangaroos are comparatively numerous,but they can be decimated by a greedy commercial industry together with climate change and new diseases being introduced because of that. The Tasmanian Devil was 3 years ago common and considered by farmers a pest now it is on the endangered list because of a facial cancer - unknown origin. For facts on the kangaroo read "Kangaroos - Myths and Realities" a book by Australian Wildlife Protection Council...www.awpc.org.au

The fuzzy cuddly Australian Icon or numerous destructive pest! Nature had its own way of dealing with its over-population explosions in the animal kingdom, its we humans that have forgotten the laws, and with the casualties of our ever changing unstable world, the tens of thousands that been killed lately(humans) this should be a wake up call for all of us.
(9 billion people/ fifty years until the game for us is up) Your ignorance ( humans in general ) is just unbelievably stunning. "Of course the kangaroo has to be shot" and its all our fault because of our own over-breeding, how simple do you need the maths!

Humans are the new lords of nature and now you don't want to get your hands dirty when we make a mess of it all.

Like I said in the last thread!

HUMANS OR ROO'S.

You all want your cake and eat it!

Don't make me laugh!

EVO

Let's see. If I put 200 head of cattle in a locked paddock without food and water and left them there to fend for themselves I would be rightly charged with cruelty. But apparently its OK to do that with roos.

What are we teaching our children? My kids have grown up around roos for all their small lives and I dare you to sit there and have a debate on why we should be culling them to my 9yo. How long are they going to last with the amount of killings going on? Do you never want to see one in the wild again - do you like the idea of going to a zoo or wildlife park and having to donate monies to help with the breeding programme??

Ok - I dont agree with the so called 'reasons' the Canberra cull accured - BUT if it did and it was done 'humanley', why were they jumping twice their height to escape? Why were they jumping into fences and breaking their necks and bones trying to get away? Why were the mothers kicking their young out thinking that they were helping them and yet under the human control of who was 'the power that be' in the killing pens - left for 36 hours with no food, water or parents - according to the witness who were THERE; you could HEAR these young calling for their mothers. If that is called 'humane' I would love to see what 'inhumane' brings us..

It is a pity one of the reasons for the cull was the precious grasslands - security people were clearly seen driving over this grassland - so what now is going to happen to the moths that they were trying to protect with no grasslands to feed on?? Why were their numbers large - maybe it had to do with the fence. And I think we are all forgetting that roos do not breed UNLESS their is pleanty of food and water to provide to their young.

Lets face the fact - this is all because the govt came up with a figure of 3.5 million to move the roos, the actul figure ws nowhere near that. Be honest - the reason why they wanted the roos gone? A housing development!

Just remember, soon there will be none left.

The main problem I have with this argument is that the basis of the ACT Government decision to authorise the cull of kangaroos in Belconnen was a 2006 export report. The experts included a professor of veterinarian science from the University of Melbourne, a rangeland expert from the CSIRO, a representative from the RSPCA and the ACT Environment Commissioner. These experts recommended that the most humane option to address overpopulation of kangaroos on the site, which threatened endangered grasslands and species.

I also have problems with the idea that the debate could expand beyond ‘to cull or not to cull’ because the cull is addressing overpopulation of some kangaroo species. Overpopulation of the larger species of kangaroos resulted from European land-management practices, such as farmers providing pastures and water sources for grazing domestic livestock, which favoured kangaroos. This effectively means that the larger kangaroo species have been able to flourish to greater numbers than would be possible before European settlement, without natural predators and traditional Aboriginal hunting for meat and skins. Australian Governments, both Federal and State, utilise culls and commercial shooting to address the problem of overpopulation because other methods are impractical or ineffective. Between 2000 and 2005, on available data, the numbers of kangaroos shot on mainland Australia was between 2.7 and 3.9 million each year, depending on the size of kangaroo populations.

If there was really alternatives to culling, wouldn't it be in the interests of the Department of Defence to pursue that alternative rather than persisting with a controversial cull? That would have avoided the embarassment of bowing to public pressure by pursuing relocation and then later back-flipping when Defence realised that relocation was expensive and it was unclear whether the kangaroos would survive.

Offers were made by wildlife groups to help relocate the “surplus” kangaroos and since most of us relocate and/or rehabilitate wildlife on a voluntary basis, costs would have been minimal. In fact, one of the wildlife groups had already found and had approval for a suitable release site. Many would have come to help for the love and respect we have for our wildlife alone and the years of knowledge many have gained raising and relocating kangaroos would have ensured minimal stress to the macropods concerned.
However,this logical solution fell on deaf ears as our government again ignored reason and did what they "thought" best!
Until people and our governments respect our wildlife and realise that shooting them is not a solution to whatever problems they perceive our wildlife is causing, the fate of our kangaroos will be the same as that of the Passenger Pigeon in America or our own Tasmanian Tiger.

What are we teaching our children. That has to be QUESTION OF THE CENTURY! Lets see! Greed, selfishness, Confusion, Hate, Jealousy, Bad morals and Ethics, Lying, Cheating, Stealing, Uncaring, Bitterness, Wastefulness, Destructiveness, Bullying, Violence, Sexual Perversion, Eating disorders, Religious nutters, and Blindness to reality. Obesity, Drug taking, Alcoholism, False and Ridiculous role models (sporting, Movie stars, Politicians, etc.

If I have missed any, please feel free to enlighten me.

Keeping up with the Jones syndrome, false hopes and dreams, debt, Iam better than you bullsh#t, and it goes on,and on,and on!

The rat race, which is killing us by the way, is nothing short of madness! I have with-drawn from this nut house meat-grinder of a world, and you know what the funny thing is, you all know it and you still take it up the bottem.lol

Overpopulation of humans!

I wonder what the problem is. mmmmmmmmm!

On a serious note, ( children ) monkey see monkey do! I hope you are all prepared for the consequences of your parenting abilities.

For some on this site, here is my non professional advice!

DONT BREED!( smile.)

All the best with your thoughts.

EV

Alzo writes, "Oh my god people are becoming so soft. When this country faces a real crisis we are in serious trouble. FFS they are a bunch of roos....theres millions of them."

Alzo, that is such a ridiculous comment. How is it that you can point to kangaroo numbers when it is humans who are encroaching on the kangaroos? That is really really absurd. The truth is that those Belconnen roos were slaughtered to make way for housing developments because there are too many humans. Don't tell me that humans are too helpless to check their numbers. It is the politicians' faults for not standing up to the developers who are dictating to the rest of us how to live and how many we should be, just as we are attempting to do to the kangaroos. We are importing more humans here every day, yet we have the gaul to tell the roos that THEY are too numerous.

I suspect I need to draw a picture.

The kangaroo population structures are fracturing. Their populations are fragmenting. Once common species could crash very quickly.

We have been taught not to be compassionate and to believe everything we hear even if our eyes tell us a different story. Well, I don't buy that.

Great article, Adam Henry. Shame there are so many well-trained fools out there who just shout you down because they have been trained to do so.

I forgot to post this URL: https://candobetter.org/node/542
Take a look at the photograph of the Belconnen kangaroos a few days before the slaughter. You would have to be unbelievably credulous to accept the story that these animals were starving or overpopulated. I have filmed hungry kangaroos. Where Australians used to stand up for wildlife, they have become credulous and uncritical. They believe everything that someone in 'authority' or the press tells them.

How could anyone believe that the authorities wanted to protect some plant, lizard and moth species on the army base when they run cattle there, they drove all over it with vehicles to kill the roos, and they intend surrounding it with housing estates and roads, and my guess is that they intend building on the base itself.

Why wouldn't the government allow the animals safe passage to other bushland?

I will tell you why. It is because they don't want wildlife; they want suburbs. They want more tv screens, cars, and widgets. They will go into hock for them and they will kill anything else that gets in their way. They want an unsustainable growth economy with a huge population of humans. Kangaroos don't buy houses or cars and so they have to go if the growth merchants have their way.

Some unofficial observers think that the full 'quota' may not have been met and wonder if the total number or roos in the Belconnen area had been exaggerated, since there don't seem to be many left. IF the numbers were exaggerated then this would COMPLETELY undermine the rationale for killing them. It would show severely inaccurate counting, destroy the argument of overcrowding based on estimated numbers, and bolster the argument that these animals could not be overcrowded since they were in beautiful condition and appeared relaxed and comfortable.

And maybe that is why the government renegged on its promise to count the animals before they started the shooting.

I could not agree with you more Kanga. Well said!
I am amazed, horrified and deeply ashamed of the attitude towards our kangaroos in general as expressed by so many Australians in their comments over the past couple of weeks about the Belconnen kangaroos.
Don't they realise that kangaroos have never been a problem in this wonderful country but people have.
Until our society realises this and minimises/halts population growth, our wildlife,biodiversity and probably our own existence are seriously threatened.

"Don't tell me that humans are too helpless to check their numbers."
Ok...mum's the word.

"It is the politicians' faults for not standing up to the developers who are dictating to the rest of us how to live and how many we should be"
Those nasty developers...forcing us into our McMansions and telling us to breed.

"I suspect I need to draw a picture."
Let those creative juices flow babe.

"The kangaroo population structures are fracturing. Their populations are fragmenting. "
OK we get the picture...fragmentation...Tim Flannery eat your heart out.

"We have been taught not to be compassionate"
Tell that to my kids...

"Take a look at the photograph of the Belconnen kangaroos"
I did....they seemed etheral...almost ghost like.

"Until our society realises this and minimises/halts population growth, our wildlife,biodiversity and probably our own existence are seriously threatened."
By god your're right! Here take a plastic suicide bag.

ALZO. I could not have said it better myself. Thank you.

EVO

Thanks Adam Henry and Kanga too for pointing to the article at http://candobetter.org/node/542

If I hadn't read these accounts I would have assumed there had to be some logical reason, why the ACT felt it necessary to commit this barbaric act, even if one with which I would not have agreed, but it seems not.