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The Forum > Article Comments > Put up a sticker and you've done your bit > Comments

Put up a sticker and you've done your bit : Comments

By James Allan, published 29/1/2008

It's all form and no substance for the bumper-sticker moralisers, and there's no shortage of them around.

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Probably the toughest concept to grasp for some reason:

>>both those giant developing countries well know that the West became rich because of cheap energy. Now it's their turn<<

Looking at the problem from their point of view means that we have to let go of the concept that America's interests (and ours, and most of Europe's, by association) are paramount.

From Beijing or Mumbai, our attitude looks far more like "dog-in-the-manger" than "save the planet". Our assumption that others should shoulder the cost of our continued prosperity looks just a little self-absorbed, does it not, when faced with the quite natural objectives of governments keen to improve the lot of their own people?

One thing is for sure. There is no simple solution.
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 8:22:02 AM
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I noticed this idiotic piece in The Australian a few days ago. What has Prof Allan got against people who drive Toyotas? Shouldn't they have opinions or is it just that they shouldn't express them in public? I've never owned a Toyota, but I had a Datsun for a few years, and I oppose the whale slaughter. More here http://aginflow.blogspot.com/2008/01/rants-in-their-pants.html
Posted by redbox, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 8:56:50 AM
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Yes to the sentiment on bumper sticker displays, and yes to the comments on the UN, a useless, corrupt organisation run by Third World despots.

As for Kyoto, well it is silly in the extreme for our Government to sign up to something which they have had several years to see has not made a bit of difference. Like the bumpers sticker addicts, the Government is naively and gutlessly trying to keep in the good books of foreign countries who don’t give two hoots about Australia.

A big no to the nuclear option, though
Posted by Leigh, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 9:17:12 AM
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Strangely, yeah, I'm going to have to agree with Leigh and the author for the most part, but there's a big fat caveat.

Things like a united international organisation such as the UN, or international agreements regarding something as difficult as climate change, have to start somewhere.

Put simply, the way nations are, if you put up a prescriptive kyoto protocol that would actually do a signficant amount of good... nobody would sign it. Look how reticent Howard was on signing Kyoto, even though we'd have met the targets anyway.

So my view is that you've got to start somewhere, even though the author is right insofar as they're not particularly effective - yet.
We do have the opportunity to progress and make headway with a new Kyoto agreement now that we have basic foundations... though I suspect we're only going to make real achievements when we're really pressed against the wall.

Similar situation for the UN. Yes, it's pretty ineffective as it stands, but c'mon. What hope have we got for a united world, if we don't even try with the UN? The only alternative is to give up altogether, but I'd rather keep the UN even if it is a bickering organisation.
Besides, whilst the failures have been spectacular, the UN does have its moments. They're generally more modest successes, but there have been peacekeeping operations that have made a genuine difference in people's lives, not to mention the aid assistance.
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 9:30:37 AM
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"…if you approached the problem in terms of taxing carbon dioxide, it would become too obvious just how high the costs would be of achieving a 70 per cent reduction "

Dozens, if not hundreds of studies have been done by various economists all around the world, and the result seems to be pretty universal - the cost of reducing emissions is in the order of 1-2% of GDP. Bugger all compared to the cost of, say, Iraq.

To claim that "2 to 3 degrees global warming" is a "defensible position" for India/China to take is absurd, unless you choose to ignore the scientists who have dedicated their time, effort and expertise to determine the likely ecological and human costs that this much warming entails.

Actually I don't believe it's the position they're taking at all - it's more like "we think we can ignore the problem a bit longer... someone will come along with an easy solution soon enough".

Regarding the effectiveness of Kyoto, the group most committed to Kyoto, the EU-15, is on track for an 11% cut on 1990 levels by 2012, well over the agreed target of an 8% cut (http://reports.eea.europa.eu/eea_report_2007_5/en). No doubt some of this is due to offshoring manufacturing to China & India, but other Western nations have had this “benefit” too, without the same reductions.

The only other countries set to achieve actual reductions from 1990 levels are those that have suffered significant economic decline.

Further, surely the main reason Kyoto hasn't "worked" as a global solution is because the U.S. hasn't agreed to it. By far the most overriding concern regarding a workable solution is achieving something that the U.S. will agree to. Hopefully after November, that should be somewhat easier to accomplish.

Re Darfur, either the author is wilfully ignorant of the actual situation there, and in particular, the various pressures that are driving the continuing conflict, or he seriously believes that human life there is somehow less valuable, and wiping it out and starting again is the only way forward.

(And P.S. - I have no bumper stickers).
Posted by wizofaus, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 9:36:11 AM
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Given his dismissive attitude to others, I would be interested to hear how James Allan is contributing to this issue - living in a tent perhaps?
Posted by Godo, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 10:16:10 AM
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