Good article, but I can't help but not share the optimism of the 'eventually, the truth will out'.

I understand why you're angry at the government but I also understand why they have to try their utmost to cover it up.

We aren't dealing with rational, enlightened cultures here, these people - at the highest levels of the Indonesian government, are terrorist sympathisers, anti-western bigots, not to mention the chaps who are actually suspected of ordering the killings.

This is why our government, and other western governments, need to go around the world forcing our superior values on savage cultures. We rely on trade now, we don't want to upset China on the Tibet issue, Indonesia on every issue, it's ridiculous.

The ONLY thing those with tribal values understand is force. We must crush any state who doesn't follow human rights, who would protect killers of journalists.

Globalisation has allowed backward, savage cultures - with appalling values, to become strong. I believe that ending colonialism was the racist thing the western world ever did. It's like abandoning your children...

The current President, SBY, actually denied J.I existed at first. Prominent politicians met regularly with J.I leader Abu Bakr Bashir - an Islamic bigot if there ever was one, and we know from poll after poll that many Indonesians support Jihadi terrorists.

It will be interesting to see what happens if the redneck cleric Bashir runs for President in 2009 like he says he will - democracy in Indonesia has only delivered backward Islamists more power.

Bring back the Dutch I say, and don't pull out until they share Dutch, i.e, human, values.

bless you, benjamin: it's good to be reminded how superior we are. or at least, how superior i am. you have simultaneously demonstrated ignorance, arrogance, racial or ethnic intolerance, which in turn reveals a certain failing in intellect. but i'm sure you will make your way in politics, there will be openings in the back rooms of the liberal party for men of your quality. not the front, i'm afraid- the frothing mouth turns away the lily livered swing voter.

or failing that, alan jones left a blank spot at channel nine, if you're younger and prettier you should apply.

DEMOS, how could you be so unkind?

The five journalists should be given an award all right. The Darwin Award for being stupid enough to be there in the first place. They had more than a fair idea of what was about to happen and they should have known what Indonesians thought of the Australian press, considering all the adverse comments which had been made in Australian newspapers before that. They were also warned not to go so the outcome was on their own heads. I'm sorry for the ones they left behind, because it need not have happened. It didn't need another inquiry/inquest to confirm to us what bastards the Indonesians are. The five journo's already knew.

Well done Bruce.

But I wouldn't expect the Howard Government to give these 5 Australian war correspondent's memories or their families a fair go.

Unless there's electoral gain in it.

Its no longer in Howard's nature. Too much macho proximity to Bush Jnr. has dulled Howard's sensitivities, I suspect.

As for Downer Jnr, he's Jnr.

Pete

I think the so-called Australian "coronial investigation" has zero value and has no correlation with the truth. It is a trap designed to bash and smear Indonesia, set-up by anti-Indonesian elements in Australia. There is no representative of Indonesia to defend our case, and hence the outcome is predetermined to be anti-Indonesian as well. Hence, such joke of an "investigation" has as much value as a Nazi show-trial.

The truth is, these Australian war correspondents were killed since they were with the Fretilin communist gunmen when Indonesian soldiers arrived. Many Fretilin gunmen were killed, and the five journalists were killed due to their close proximity with the communist enemy. The people to be blamed are the journalists themselves, since they decided to stay with the armed communist enemy in a conflict situation. Additionally, people who don't want to get hurt should not choose to become war correspondent since death is an unavoidable risk for all war correspondents.

As for the allegation that Indonesia wanted to "hide" its take-over of East Timor, that is just ridicilous. Indonesia quite openly launched the military operation to take-over East Timor, we never need to hide this fact from anyone. Especially not Australia, since it is Australia and USA who persuaded Suharto to invade East Timor to crush rising Fretilin communism there. Indonesia itself prudly made monuments to celebrate the operation to crush communism in East Timor.

So "Proud to be Indonesian" you must be very proud of the thousands of people in East Timor raped and slaughtered by your forces from 1975 to 1999? Having just spent an extended period in the country and having travelled to every corner, the physical evidence of the crimes by the Indonesians is everywhere. And that's before you start talking to pretty much anyone you meet and hearing about how many of their family members were killed by the Indonesians over the years. Oh, but yes the Indonesians did need to destroy the country in 1999 as a) a farewell gesture, b) one more effort to root out the evil communists, c) to prove they were immature thugs?

There should be a planeload of Indonesian political and military leaders (and their "militia" stooges) hauled off to the Hague to face charges for crimes against humanity and genocide for the events of 1999. But it will never happen, not with Australia offering cover by putting its economic interests ahead of basic morality.

Oh, and kudos to the other posters above for their "it's the bum's fault for getting in the way of the murderer's bullets" arguments above. Are you frustrated that Stalin isn't around offering jobs? (And I'd love to hear your take on all those Catholic priests, nuns and faithful who were stupid enough to get in the way of all those Indonesian bullets in Suai in 1999.)

PTBI, your comments on the Australian justice system are laughable in the light of the Indonesian "courts" recent decisions to execute Christians who "instigated" riots against Muslims while handing down mere gaol sentences to men who courageously beheaded Christian schoolgirls with parangs.

As for our "support" of Indonesia's brutal and illegal takeover of Timor Leste, our then government would have had more sympathy with Fretelin than your savage dictator, but were busy with other things. True, subsequent governments have bent over backwards to appease Indonesia, but even the thickest politician (with the possible exception of Downer, who is thicker than most) has woken up to the neo-colonial threat posed by the Indonesian government, especially given their pathetic handling of the jihadi Bashir case.

The "Communist threat" you alude to in your rant was just another excuse for Indonesia to kill thousands (like you did with the Chinese minority). Are the West Papuans Communists or is there another excuse for wiping them out?

In my opinion there are two grounds on which your comments carry no weight PtbI.
The first is that you ignore completely the known facts
surrounding what happened at Balibo and secondly you hide your inane
contribution behind a pseudonym.
That lacks courage. Would you make the same comments if you had to put your name to them?
I can understand someone using a pseudonym in order to be able to speak out and avoid getting the sack or worse if they happen to work in Howard's public service.
If I write an article and put my name to it common decency should demand that a commentator should put their own name to it. Too often it is an excuse to deploy dutch courage such as VK3AUU.
Are you saying VK3AUU that Damien Parer deserved to die because he knew that the Japanese were intent on aggression and would kill him if they could?
Are you saying that Tony Joyce deserved to be killed by ZANU on the Zambian/Rhodesia border? Do you think Neil Davis deserved to die filming an attempted coup in Bangkok?
Bruce Haigh

DEMOS,

Can you elaborate on your comments, or, like most from the far leftist herd, do you simply 'follow the leader' and not know why you don't like what I wrote?

Everything in my post is logical. Indonesia is a largely bigoted society, reflected in their Islamic values. Women don't have the same rights as males, and non-Muslims are routinely discriminated against, kidnapped, even killed.

Show me where I've demonstrated ignorance, as again, when politicians meet with murderous Islamists like Bashir, and there are no protests to have the politician removed - I believe it represents bigotry in that society.

Show me where I was arrogant, or do you believe that tribal, sectarian values, where intolerance and violence are the order of the day, are on equal footing with western values of tolerance, equality for men and women, minorities, i.e, where women have the SAME rights under the law as males.

You sure it's me who's ignorant?

Show me where I'm racially intolerant, unless you think it is intolerant to be intolerant of those who are disgustingly intolerant of all ways other than their own. Westerners can show reasons, we can argue, point for point, why it is better to consider every human being equal in value, but Islamists will have a hard time convincing me that homosexuals should be stoned to death, women are worth half a man in court, and non-Muslims are inferior beings who must pay a poll-tax to Muslims in order to remain alive.

Now I know Indonesia doesn't practice all these, although they do in some parts - like Aceh, but their treatment of women is there for all to see - and they, like EVERY Muslim nation, are ocassionally attacked by the cowardly UN for such treatment.

You have no argument. And I stand by my earlier claim, such cultures, such value systems, need to be genocidede. The people can then start again, with civilised western values, which is what they all want anyway - people from third world flock here non-stop.

This gives us a MANDATE to destroy their backward values they fled.

Bruce Haig.

If you wish to put my pseudonym into Google you will readily find who I am. I don't try to hide it.
All those people who you name, knew the risks they were taking before they went into the combat areas and they went voluntarily, unlike the troops who they accompanied. It is indeed unfortunate that they lost their lives and that is to be regretted, but to blame others for their deaths is a bit disingenuous.

Benjamin.

If you think the U.S. and the George W's allies are so lilly white, read what Dick Marty has to say about extraordinary renditions at
http://www.voltairenet.org/article148224.html or read the whole report at
http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/ssi/full_report_marty_060807.pdf

We are no better than the Indonesians.

Now don't be silly VK3AUU.Stop,think and consider what it is you want to say before you post.What a silly thing to say. Why should I chase through Google looking for your name? If, as you imply, its easily traceable then use it. What sort of game are you playing? My point stands,if you want your comments to carry weight,if you want to be taken seriously,if you want to change things for the better,use your name. Otherwise it is just a self indulgent whistle in the dark which will disappear into the eather.I urge you to have the self confidence to join in and make a difference.

@TLW:

"thousands of people in East Timor raped and slaughtered by your forces"

LOL, such mythical anti-Indonesian propaganda lies no longer works, boy. From census figures of 1974 and 2000, it is clear that the population of East Timor actually doubled under Indonesian rule. We are proud of the health and welfare system we implemented in East Timor that allowed the population to grow at such a rate. Unfortunately, the incompetent buffoons who call themselves the "government of East Timor" has created a complete collapse in health care system that causes the infant mortality rate to shoot up and life expectancy to plumet.

""it's the bum's fault for getting in the way of the murderer's bullets" arguments"

You cannot blame Indonesian soldiers for the death of the five journalists. Neither Indonesian soldiers nor the communist gunmen can be expected to stop a battle just because there were some journos around. If you don't wanna get hurt, don't be a war correspondent, be a librarian.

@Viking:

"True, subsequent governments have bent over backwards to appease Indonesia"

LOL, Australia never "appeases" Indonesia. Concerning ET, it was Australian PM Whitlam who begged Indonesia to crush communism in ET in his 1974 visit, not the other way around. Previously, Suharto had no interest with the Portuguese colony. It was Indonesia who appeased USA and its begging stooge Australia by invading ET.

"The "Communist threat" you alude to in your rant was just another excuse for Indonesia to kill thousands."

Fretilin leaders were trained in Communist China and Pol Pot's Cambodia, sworn enemies of Indonesia in 1970s. Additionally, Fretilin leadership in 1975 openly invited communist states into ET to help consolidate communism in the region. Indonesia simply couldn't tolerate presence of such hostile force on its borders.

"Are the West Papuans Communists or is there another excuse for wiping them out?"

LOL, Indonesia never wanted to "wipe out" West Papuans. In fact, we helped increased native Papuan population from 500,000 to 1.5 million today.

@Benjamin:

LOL,-what-an-ignorant-and-illogical-joke.-Indonesia-is-a-secular-country-under-Pancasila-where-all-religions-and-gender-are-treated-equally.-We-had-a-woman-president-(unlike-sexist-Australia),-30%-of-our-MPs-are-women,-and-many-women-are-governors-and-district-chiefs.-Meanwhile,-we-have-40-million-non-Muslims-who-become-everything-from-generals-to-ministers.-In-fact,-the-generals-who-led-the-invasion-of-ET-are-Catholics.

SEE THE LINKS FOR THE FREE LIFESTYLE OF INDONESIAN WOMEN:
http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8772
http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=106024

Indonesia-certainly-has-far-more-superior-culture-than-despicable- Australians,-descendents-of-genocidal-criminals,-the-rejects-of-European-society-who-brutally-massacred-defenceless-Aborigines-and-stole-their-land.

Proud to be Indonesian,

You are a bigot, plain and simple.

I laugh at your suggestions of Indonesian culture being superior, as I can SHOW you through argument why western values of having tolerance (only for those who are also tolerant though - this is where leftists go wrong) and equality for women, allowing homosexuals to remain living, is better than the values you have.

You are a slave to Arab values, you bow five times a day to Arabia!

Indonesia treats all religions equally?

You're obviously not from there, three Christian girls beheaded on way to school! Churches always burnt down, UN says 100 a year.

During tsunami, which only westerners helped (where were your Arab Muslim brothers?) our clergy were told they couldn't wear their priest garments, and when offered to rebuild mosque out of respect - Muslims said no, give us money but we can't build a mosque from it because you have touched this money and are only dirty kuffour.

Also, our army had to remove Australian flag from their uniform because you were so intolerant you wouldn't allow it.

Indonesia doesn't even accept refugees, you talk of genocide of Aboriginal? We acknowledge our past, parts were bad, but we help them now more than any other group. What of your indigenous? Do you even know about them? Your country just ran over them, don't you think it strange that the ONLY countries WITH indigenous ppl are white nations?

Hmm...funny that. Well no, others have them, Japan does, but nobody knows because they are not recognised. Same with your country.

Again, your values are inferior. This is why refugees, Muslims, go through your dump to get here!

^^ LOL, your childish and inane comments make me laugh, Ben-boy.

It is clear women have more equality in Indonesia than in sexist Australia, since we already have a women president and large numbers of female politicians, while Australia never had a woman PM.

Your reference to the murders of schoolgirls are irrelevant, since Indonesia law-enforcement agents have arrested or killed the perpetrators of this criminal action. This is unlike racist Australia who actively promoted the genocide of Aborigines and denied citizenship to them and other non-whites until recently, and even then under international pressure.

As for your laughable refence towards "indigenous" people, indeed most Indonesian citizens, including most of its government, are indigenous people. We are indigenous people living in our own land, unlike "Australians", who are a bunch of criminal thieves who invaded the land of Aborigines, commit genocide against them, and stole their land until today.

Australia itself is an illegally-established state since it was stolen from Aborigines, as determined by your own High Court in the 1992 Mabo Case.

There is only one way to rectify this gross violation in human rights: RETURN AUSTRALIA TO ABORIGINES NOW!!

It seems you are suffering from the disease of bigotry and racism against Asians, Muslims, Aborigines, and any non-white people. Since you are now being raised in a racist and inferior "Australian society", your misfortune is understandable.

I suggest you learn tolerance and understanding from more superior and advanced cultures such as Indonesian culture, Ben-boy. It is not late to improve yourself since you are so young, boy.

I'm 29, not 15.

But, alas, it is you who are learning the WORLD language...English. It is you who want western technology...cars, tv, computers.

Your society offers the world nothing but hatred. You are slaves to Arabia, go on...bow down to Arabs!

Seriously, your comments about genociding Aboriginals is silly. But this is the difference between western democracy and savage Indonesia.

Your country is one of the most corrupt on earth because there is no goodwill in such societies. You want to send your kids to my country for university because your universities are rubbish.

Your Doctors aren't as qualified as our nurses.

Your name says it all, you say you're proud to be Indonesian because you must display this since you're really not proud.

You know your country is backward, you know the west is superior. If not, why is your country trying to become democratic?

You talk about women's rights? A Muslim country?

Be serious. Sure, in the cities women would be treated alright, but what about Aceh?

Burqa on every woman, beard on every man.

Seriously, you will be destroyed unless you reign in the savage Arab worshipping Islamists.

Get your own culture, don't take on their's!

Benjamin you are biggoted, but relax PtbI is not for real. PtbI is a construct,a set up, hiding behind a pseudonym.
Anyway I'm onto you PtbI so take a holiday. And I hope no one else from now on takes you seriously.
PtbI is not from Indonesia,but does earn a quid from connections with the country.

@Ben-boy:

Aww, you are firing wildly, young boy. No wonder, since I've decisively reasoned that Indonesia is a much superior culture than the backward "Australia", an illegal country established by savage racist criminals who committed genocide against Aborigines and lived on land stolen from these indigenous people. It is clear the barbaric Australians are the worst human rights violators in Asia-Pacific today.

RETURN AUSTRALIA TO ABORIGINES NOW!!

"But, alas, it is you who are learning the WORLD language...English. It is you who want western technology...cars, tv, computers."

LOL, why are you so boastful over things that are not made by you? Neither English language, cars, TV, and computers are invented in Australia. Most of these appliances in Australia are manufactured and developed by more advanced Asians. Indonesia itself is one of the biggest manufacturers of electrical appliances in the world.

"You want to send your kids to my country for university because your universities are rubbish."

LOL, lots of Europeans studied in Australia. Does this mean that European unis are rubbish? In fact, small numbers of Indonesian students studied in Australia because it is cheap and nice recreational area, while overwhelming numbers of Indonesian students chose to study in one of Indonesia's hundreds of universities.

"Your Doctors aren't as qualified as our nurses."

LOL, our doctors are superior than yours. Students from all over Asia study at our medical schools, the best in the region.

"If not, why is your country trying to become democratic?"

LOL, "democracy" is not invented in the West. We Indonesians always have our own style of democracy since time immemorial. The Indonesian people currently feel that Pancasila (Indonesian-style) democracy is the best form of government today. Indonesian people had killed western-style Parliamentary democracy back in 1959 because such inferior form of government is not fit for our country.

"You talk about women's rights?"

As I said, we have a woman president and large numbers of women leaders. By contrast, there has never been any female Australian PM.

"Get your own culture, don't take on their's!"

LOL,-Indonesian-culture-has-zero-correlation-with-Arab-culture.-If-you-think-that-being-Muslim-means-becoming-Arab-slaves,-than-you-would-agree-that-most-Australians-(being-Christians)-are-slaves-of-the-Roman-Pope.

It seems to me that PTBI does not know a lot about Indonesia. He relies on statistic figure in order to dispute claim that killings took place in Lorosae. Which statistic? Biro Pusat Statistik (Statistics Indonesia)? He saw as though the statistics bureau was free from political influence of New Order.

No Arab connection? How spurious...read more about history...

Wow, Indonesia has no correlation with Arab culture? How many words in Indonesian are Arabic? Lets start... every day of the week. What headgear do many Muslim women wear there? What clothes do many "devout" Muslims wear? Hardly "traditional Indonesian"!

@zapata:

LOL, it was the Portuguese census of 1970 and UN census of 2000 that shows that population of East Timor doubled under 25 years of Indonesian rule, which is one of the highest population growth rate in the world. This is thanks to the massive improvement in health services brought by Indonesia. Thus, it is statistically impossible that any sort of "genocide" ever occurred in that half-island.

@Viking:

LOL, how many Arab words are there in English? Let's start: algebra, alchemy, alcohol, amber, caliber, candy, coffee, jasmine, lemon, magazine, etc. How many Indonesian-derived words are there in English? Let's start: launch (boat), compound, sarong, paddy, tea, orangutan. I guess that makes English culture a slave of Arab and Indonesian cultures.

What sort of clothing does Australians wear? Ugly American-style T-shirts!

A handful of words from Malay and Arabic in about 600,000 words in the English language hardly points to a heavy influence from either. Arabic has loaned a huge number of words to Indonesian, the largest source for loanwords plus a dipthong or two (remember "kh"?), in fact the next largest source of words after native ones, in a vocabulary of about 100,000 words or less.

English has many loanwords from French- in the main because England was invaded by them. Indonesia was invaded by a foreign culture and never fought it off like the English did.

Highest population in the world? ha...ha...does it mean family planning in Indonesia was a fizzer? No wonder WB ceased to fund it...
You can't simply dispute that mass killings took place by relying on statistics. The mass killings in Lorosae was not like what happened to Jews.

As for Arabic words...if you ever checked kamus bahasa Indonesia (indonesian dictionary-purwadarminta version) you would find 293 words derived from arabic language and only 143 were from English. Most appallingly, words from ethnics in eastern part of Indonesia are rarely found in the dictionary. Java and Sundanese of course are dominant.

Regarding the parliamentary democracy, don't make ridiculous claim that that type of democracy did not fit with Indonesian culture. It is a simplification of a very complex issue. Politik aliran or stream politics was part of it, exacerbated by disharmony amongst elites. As a result, it opted for authoritarian style and this type of goverment was used by Suharto. Imagine what would have happened if Sukarno was not powerful enough to dissolve the parliamentary democracy?

PTBI, maybe you can say anything here about Indonesia because you assumed that most readers here are completely ignorant about the country. By doing that, you may make people to believe that you are an authoritative source. Well i am an Indonesian but i maintain that what you have said is not always true

Viking, your memory must be very short, or you may be too young to remember, but the Indonesians actually got rid of the Dutch invaders after the second world war despite the Poms helping the Dutch.

VK3, what has the Dutch hegemony over the East Indies have to do with Arab culture in Indonesia, or Balibo? Like many colonial powers, the Dutch brought some good things and some bad things to Indonesia. For the record, and I'm sure you know this, Timor was a Portuguese holding. The Indonesians saw an opportunity for colonisation themselves after grabbing West Papua (also illegally).

@Viking:

LOL, zapata said there are 293 Arabic loanwords in Indonesian. Meanwhile, according to Oxford English Dictionary, there are 250 Arabic loanwords in English. Using your theory, that means England is as Arabicised as Indonesia.

@zapata:

LOL, of course we can realise that there was never any genocide in East Timor under Indonesian rule since that is statistically impossible, as shown by the censuses.

Sukarno taught: we must always learn from history. The chaos of the 1950s showed that western-style democracy is unfit for Indonesia. Thankfully, strong Sukarno was there to save Indonesia from early destruction caused by indecent application style of western-style type of government.

BTW, if you are Indonesian, you seem to be poorly informed about the country. No wonder your posts lack any authority and your incorrect statements easily demolished and debunked.

PTBI,

You can say that my posts lack of authority and easily debunked. I wouldn't mind. But at the end, readers will perhaps sense it that i am trying to be careful in making argument.

As for Parliamentary Democracy, i disagree with you. You seem to ignore the politik aliran factor which has been crucial in hightening tension in the Indonesian politics regardless what kind of governmental system Indonesia has. This started long before Indonesia merdeka...even in zaman pergerakan.

My lesson: please learn from history carefully and history is not black and white.

There are more likely 1000 words of Arabic origin (possibly themselves loanwords from Persian) in Bahasa Indonesia. One thousand of a total of 100,000 words is rather more significant than the handful of Arabic words (most of which are proper names, in any case, like names for stars) in the 600,000-strong English vocabulary.