Lots of diatribe but not much "Facts". Quoting the Tora or Old Testament as historical sources doesn't help much either!

It is becoming increasingly apparent that those wishing to deny our ongoing environmental interference/destruction are reverting to mockery and personal attacks rather than presenting numbers and solid data. I suppose that they feel that if they see their own words in print then it carries some weight against the pressing reality of our situation. The human capacity for denial appears to be one of the most powerful forces on Earth!

The natural weather is alays changing but how can humans be having no effect when we burn sixty tonnes of fossil fuel each year for every square kilometre of the earth's land area. Check the arithmetic. Of he 510 million square kilometres of the earth's surface area about 143 million are land. We burn about 8500billion tonnes of fossil fuel each year and the earth is replacing almost none. Sooner or later something has to give and shouldn't we prepare for that eventuallity by conserving valuable resources for future generation and even allowing the poor in undeveloped nations their share. Or was George Bush senior right when he said "America's standard of living is not negotiable" (at least until everything is gone and the world economy collapses). Of course john Howard has been taking the Bush position for Australia.

Maybe this smart alec can tell me why my roses are still blooming in June and why spring bulbs are flowering now. This has not happened before in my long lifetime. When we can observe the change at first hand we don't need to listen to the ostriches and the climate change deniers - or to those who work surreptitiously for the fossil fuel lobby.

At last some commonsense. Whatever changes (if any) humans may be responsible for, it has to be recognized that the climate has always been changing (eg the ice ages). Let's get rid of the hysteria and namecalling and look at this topic in its entirety with objectivity.

Any scientist who does not understand that the GRAVITAS of climate change is caused by human wastewater emissions floating within the top 50 mtrs of ocean surface layers is NOT a scientist. The notion that a COMPLEX system like the biosphere/atmosphere can in any way be compared to a static fixed dimensional GREENHOUSE is absurd. It flies in the face of basic thermodynamic principles and begs the questions that we have yet to even ask of atmospheric, ice and hydrological sciences.

Further, that climate change is placarded as the greatest problem for mankind is nonsense when overpopulation is causing that problem. In the end, bums-with-guns on toilet seats will destroy mankind, NOT climate change.

Sea Height Anomaly (SHA) maps of the NSW coast http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/phod/trinanes/tmp/sha1181091076.gif I show persistent large scale disturbances (red and blue patches) that correlate with billions of litres a year of sewage, industrial and farm waste being dumped from major metropolitan areas around Sydney, the Sth coast, the mid Nth coast and the Nth coast of NSW.

That the CSIRO has failed to make this connection is more to do with internal political appointments geared to boosting immigration than with any science. Even High School students are taught the Second Law Of Thermodynamics (2LT). If you build an area of HIGH entropy (disorder) then it will attract all the LOW entropy (heated air and soil) from the nearest heat source. If that heat source happens to be a parched NSW interior then these SHA anomaly patches will cause and sustain PERMANENT drought as heated air, soil and moisture are stripped off NSW and blown out to sea. The last thing you want under that circumastance is to build more slums and immigrate more bums on toilet seats to fill them and make fat profits for a few elite political power players.

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An example: Morris Iemma, and his Euro-megalomaniacs in their haste to put NSW in their back pockets have given themselves a mandate to build a DESAL plant. Not to service exiting populations but to service THEIR future voters and consumers, most of whom seem to be arriving from Sthn Europe. With this desal get rich scheme Iemma is creating low entropy fresh water and dumping high entropy brine in coastal waters and by the 2LT this will worsen the drought. Every litre of fresh will induce 1 litre of drought in NSW while Morris keeps developing slums and ghettos, makes a fortune on power and wealth for a few buddies and ruins the lives of the majority of NSW citizens. Not that NSW citizens don't deserve it. After all THEY voted for him didn't they?

And the ALP? They have been taken for a ride. If Kevin Rudd wants to prove he cares about climate change he has to show he understands the science and stop the political machinations in the NSW ALP that are overcrowding Sydney in an unjust and inequitable way both for citizens and the ENVIRONMENT. If he wants to be PM then he must at least show he can put pressure on NSW ALP factions to stop the desal plant. Better still, put up the FULL sign over Sydney and concentrate on recycling wastewater streams that can reduce coastal SHA anomalies, reduce Tasman sea entropy and put an end to NSW drought.

As for John Howard. Lost cause is too mild a term. Immigration is his long suit to the old days of Menzis power and glory. That the immigration program is overcentralised, and causing irreversible congestion in metropolitan service infrastructure across the nation and particularly in NSW and sth Qld is evidence of its failure. It is evidence of John Howard's failure. There are other ways to make Australia a great nation than turn it into a festering melting pot with a tap for dollars to come out at the bottom