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The Forum > Article Comments > An election, a million marchers and a mass murder > Comments

An election, a million marchers and a mass murder : Comments

By Rod Benson, published 7/5/2007

Turkey has been able to forge a workable partnership between the West and Islam, but now the future looks bleak.

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Rev Benson,

Not sure what the purpose of the article is? You started with Turkey, then into Islam and abrogation, then Iraq and Darfur!

You quote
"Mr Gul remains a devout Muslim, and at the same time a strong advocate of Turkish membership in the decidedly non-religious European Union. Perhaps he and his backers have continental ambitions"

Abdulla Gul was an advocate of Turkey joining the EU as you said which will transform Turkey. Its ironic you are criticising a man's ambition to improve his country social and economical standards while not clarifying why the 'EU Christian club' is opposing Turkey joining the EU.
Posted by Fellow_Human, Monday, 7 May 2007 9:34:05 AM
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An unstable Turkey, with Sunni Islam as a dominant political force, is one of the last things the West needs.

Turkey's geographic position (next to Shiite dominated Iraq and Iran) means its important Turkey remains secular rather than becoming combative and sectarian.

Pete
http://spyingbadthings.blogspot.com/
Posted by plantagenet, Monday, 7 May 2007 11:42:49 AM
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I agree Fellow Human, a rather strange article.

I think the point that the author is skirting around is that Christians are inherently superior to Muslims. Three Christians were (allegedly) killed by Muslims and he "cannot imagine that a genuine, sane follower of Jesus would ever be driven to killing strangers in cold blood on the basis of religious convictions". His underlying point being that a sane follower of Muhammad, on the other hand...

On reflection, I think the thing that offends me most about the article is the statement that "Three events raise important questions for Turkey’s political future, for the small minority of Christians who live and work there, and for every community threatened by radical Islam."

I would have thought the Presidential elections and the mass rallies in support of secularism also raise important questions for the 70 million Turks who live there. Or don't they matter? After all, they are only Muslims.
Posted by Butters, Monday, 7 May 2007 12:03:11 PM
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christianity has been somewhat neutered and is probably less of a threat than militant islam. it's not that christianity hasn't been a front for murderous maniacs, but the primary religion in the west nowadays is profitolatry. so it's right to worry about turkey, a little.

but why don't people worry more, much more, about having sac, usmc, and the whole usa military machine in the hands of a man who was elected by the coalition of the 45% of americans who think genesis is the literal truth, and the 6% of americans who are, or hope to be, on the fortune 500 list. there's a really scary bunch, who have demonstrated a willingness to commit mass murder many times and many places.
Posted by DEMOS, Monday, 7 May 2007 12:22:18 PM
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Mr. Benson, you say ' but I cannot imagine that a genuine, sane follower of Jesus would ever be driven to killing strangers in cold blood on the basis of religious convictions.'

No doubt you will be inundated with examples from the history of the Church--the massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve, for instance. The question is whether the perpetrators of these evils were genuine and sane. You can make your case circular, by limiting whom you will count as genuine followers to those who eschew violence. But then you'd have an empty tautology.

The trouble for you is that what we know of the supporters of past massacres suggests that they believed they were doing God's will.

I'm not one to say that Christianity automatically corrupts morality. I have known too many Christians who are good people, for whom their faith assisted their determination to do good. But it can also lead people into immorality.

One trouble is that the New Testament contains moral mistakes, and when the Christian starts to think that faithful obedience calls for following what the Bible says, (rather than the imitation of Christ), they act badly.

Some examples. The Book of Revelation depicts a god who is horrifically evil. St. Paul supposes that God creates people knowing that they will end up in hell. The attempts to defend such a god against the charge of immorality involve mistaken theories of justice--any view that can "justify" eternal fires must appeal to premises that, if true, would justify massacres. The reflection on the Bible leads to the immorality.

St. Paul makes moral mistakes--such as his view of homosexuality (if it is that) in Romans. Once Christians start thinking that they must do what the Bible says, that it cannot be wrong, they are on a road to acting badly, with the best of intentions of following their master.

Fortunately, most stop short of great evil. There is much to be said for the image of a man sacrificing himself for his enemies--even for us atheists. (But not for the god who requires it.)
Posted by ozbib, Monday, 7 May 2007 12:24:50 PM
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Demos is quick to scoff at '45% of americans who think genesis is the literal truth'. Some how believing in a Creator seems a lot more logical than a made up theory. Why is it that fundamentalist athiest will have us believe that houses, cars and buldings all have a designer and yet the human body which is far more complicated was a product of 'biological evolution'. Tell me please who is the gullible one?

It also seems pretty obvious that many have been killed in non religous wars. The communist have a pretty good record in this regard.

It is always amusing that the God of the bible which the fundy athiest claim not to believe in is often blamed for starvation, wars and murders. Of course these things could not be caused by the greed, lust, envy and selfishness found in the hearts of all men.
Posted by runner, Monday, 7 May 2007 2:48:40 PM
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