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The Forum > Article Comments > Appeal is favourable for Catch the Fire Ministries > Comments

Appeal is favourable for Catch the Fire Ministries : Comments

By David Palmer, published 11/1/2007

Victoria's 'Racial and Religious Tolerance Act' 2001 remains deeply troubling and must be changed.

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The author ends his essay with the phrase "persons of goodwill".

I would suggest that Catch the Fire (CF)and its associated fundamentalist groups such as Saltshakers are not persons of goodwill at all.
They quite deliberately and intentionally inflame (pun) tensions.
And that they have no intention of promoting mutual tolerance and understanding.
It seems to me that any of kind of freedom (including freedom of speech)implies the necessary disipline of responsibility.
The responsibility to get your facts right.
I would suggest that CF and their fellow travellers have no intention or even capability of exercising such responsibility.
Their ideologically driven "world-view" being full of absolute binary exclusions. No shades of grey or paradox or ambiguity allowed!!
Posted by Ho Hum, Thursday, 11 January 2007 9:27:08 AM
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It seems rather obvious that as far as the god haters are concerned that everyone has free speech except the Christians. The two Danny's spoke nothing but truth in love and are then charged under these ridiculous laws.

Many god haters are happy to appease Islam (as shown recently with cartoons) and promote any other religion as long as it is tolerant of the intolerant. Christ is mocked daily in the media and in workplaces.

The good news is that everywhere that Christians get persecuted the church ghrows stonger and stronger (China being a great example). Christians have a responsibility to call good good and evil evil. No amount of laws will silence genuine believers from speaking the truth.

I feel sorry for the 2 Danny's to be subject to such unfair treatment but am glad that the ridiculous nature of some of the god haters have been exposed. Mr Bracks and the appropriate ministers should be ashamed of their actions
Posted by runner, Thursday, 11 January 2007 10:14:53 AM
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Runners use of language is a typical example of the use of the black and white language of binary exclusions I mentioned in my first posting.
The language of "righteous" confrontation which, when extended and projected on to the world stage via the various kinds of mass inflamatory media, becomes the catalyst for the fight to the death murderous wars of mind that you can see on the daily "news".
Posted by Ho Hum, Thursday, 11 January 2007 10:27:50 AM
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Ho Hum

I don't think you need to worry about the mass media promoting Christian values. In the West most of the media does not support Christian values and in many cases opposes them. As far as your comments about righteous language is concerned, any believer knows he has no righteousness of his own. A person's righteousness either comes from Christ or self. Self righteousness to God is as a filthy rag. That is why Christ died. Your attempt however to portray Christian views as bigotted only highlights how bigotted many of the god haters actually are themselves.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 11 January 2007 10:51:48 AM
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Dear HoHum
I'm not sure what to make of your position. Could you please clarify ?

If we were ranting against Hitler, would you be harping about 'shades of grey' ? Would you have been one of those in England at the time marching in favor of Adolph ? There were plenty.

I honestly think you are missing a fundamental difference between the Christian prophetic call, and the Islamic STATE. One is basically spiritual, the other political.

Have you ever studied the unfolding blood/political/fear relationships between MOhammed and his 'Companions' ? Have you examined exactly how they (the most qualified) interpreted the Quranic verses about 'fight the idolators' ?
If it can be shown that it is obligatory on true Muslims to follow Mohammed's example, (as he interpreted the Quran) then one would have a good case to support in every way, the lack of distinction made between 'moderate' and 'mainstream' muslims and radicals which Daniel Scott outlined in his seminar, and for which part of the Judgement came down against him.

I refer you to this information which I compiled, and ask your assessment in terms of evidentary value, (as it comes from Islamic sources) and then, perhaps you might be better positioned to criticize those of us who only seem to know 2 colors.
http://www.truetruth.wikispaces.com

You are bemoaning our binary focus, while others are erecting a State within a State around you and us, which will unless challenged, ultimately become a prison of the darkest kind. You cannot be 'tolerant' of the degree of intolerance inherrent in Islam.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Thursday, 11 January 2007 11:36:40 AM
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Runner - your use of terms like 'god haters' is one of those tactics used to polarise debate and demonise one side. Who do you define as a 'god hater?'
I'm a pacifist agnostic, who is in favour of the separation of church and state. Am I therefore a 'god hater?' how can you hate something you're not convinced exists?

You argue christianity is persecuted. Perhaps you missed the title of this piece. Note the Islamic council is the one forking out the costs.

I find it a bit rich to hear that christianity is persecuted in Australia. I can only assume that to you, persecution means anything less than a totally encompassing influence.

Our prime minister and leader of the opposition are both christians. Our health minister is a staunch catholic. While you can wail about the liberal media, it fails to acknowledge that all the most prominent columnists are right wing, christian friendly.

And runner... one day you may need to accept that plenty of Christians are remarkably bigoted. It's sad but true - many of them bear little resemblance to the behaviour and teachings of your almighty jesus.
Christian views may be all about social justice... it's a shame more christians don't get down and dirty with the whores and lepers like jesus did.

BOAZ... you don't make any distinction between the various shades of Islam. You call christianity a 'prophetic call' while denouncing Islam.

I'll grant, those of Islam who do honestly seek to impose their views with force are a problem, though I'd say the same of any christians. But believe it or not, not all Islam's impose their views with force. Plenty just preach non violent means and abhor violence. I happen to believe that there are indeed parts of the Qu'ran which espouse violence, but the central message is one of peace.
Like Christianity, though those opposed like to pick bad bits. Problem with Islam: there are too many people following the bad bits,not adopting the key parts of any functioning civilisation, though with a billion muslims, you're bound to get some badeggs.
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Thursday, 11 January 2007 12:33:47 PM
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