Our cosmology is grounded in reality, while christology is held up in faith and that is way they are incompatible. This is the fundamentalist point, once you allow reality to bound your beliefs, then you are no the slippery slop to theistism , agnosticism and even out right Atheistism. It's true many people find toe holds along the way to support their faith. The reality is those toe holds are generally based on ignorance of reality not a conformation of faith.

"Toe holds?" Is such the basis of your "faith?" I'm Christian and don't remember reading this term in the Bible, or anyplace else.

Here's something else you can "bite into" besides toes. When disussing female rights in this place, I received unfulfilled promises by posters to promote my novel -- author proceeds go to prevent child abuse. It hurt the project, and children because I'd wasted time, such a limited commondity for humans. I'm 55 with bad health habits and issues, and have no time to waste.

Email me and I'll give you more info. The prevention of universal child maltreatment is way more important than theoretical theology. It will give you something meaningful to do, well beyond presenting religious views about which the less contributing to humanity often argue.

robert_t@charter.net

According to Western Middle Age history, it was St Thomas Aquinas who finally began the earthly enlightenment which lifted Christianity out of the Spiritual Dark Ages, which taught that death for a devout Christian was preferable to life on earth.

It is so interesting that many of the more learned central Middle East Moslems of the time, different to the way they are now, still retained their Aristotlean heritage to the point that many spread the message containing a mixture of early Greek reasoning and a faith in Allah.

It has been pointed out by Western philosophers how Aquinas wrote the thesis proving that not by faith alone but enhancing it with reason that gave the earthly impetus to Western Christianity.

In fact, it is said that our Western earthly enlightenment became and has been so dramatic with its retained admixture of the Old Testament belief in the Promised Land that we have unfortunately driven a formerly more liberal and progressive Islam into its own escapist but vengeful Dark Ages.

Perhaps there is a way to explain, in further biblical terms. There is nothing to suggest that Christ did NOT physically rise and ascend into heaven. This is not to say that humans will do the same. Whilst Christ may have the power to do this bodily, the bible teaches that we are made IN THE IMAGE of God, not of the same stuff. So basically we look somewhat like God, but are not able to do the same things (obviously, or we would be resurrectting people left right and centre - imagine the population problems then). So I personally find that it is not too hard to be able to accept on some level that whilst Christ may have been able to do these things, our bodies will not be able to follow the same paths. It is our soul that is eternal, whilst our body is just a housing for this soul whilst on Earth.

As for the creed, I am quite comfortable with it. It should in no way be left out of services as it is a central tenent of Christian belief. If you dont believe that this happened, then you are not Christian, you are simply someone that believes in God (as do the Jews and Muslims).

I HAVE JUST READ THE BOOK "JESUS THE MAN" I have no hesitation in recommending it to all, I have been a committed catholic all my life, and found this book very interesting indeed.

Sells tired old entirely exoteric speculations about something that didnt even happen.
And quoting church "fathers" who were essentially misogynists and helped create the body negative and body hating cultural script of puritan Christianity. This entirely body negative script being the root cause of ALL of our seemingly intractable social problems.
Why not by contrast quote the body positive writings, music and art of Hildegard of Bingen or William Blake
These references provide an Illuminated understanding of the body (whatever it is altogether) and everything "else".
1. www.dabase.net/dht6.htm There Is Only Light
2. www.dabase.net/tfrbkgil.htm The Garden of Indestructible Light
3. www.dabase.net/2armP1.htm#ch1 I Is the Body Is Love

This essay provides an esoteric critique of the exoteric misunderstanding of the drama of "jesus".
4. www.dabase.net/exochrist.htm

These three essays provide a description of the devastating cultural consequences of the war against the body at the root of the Christian cultural script.
5. www.dabase.net/2armP1.htm#ch2 The Taboo Against the Superior Man
6. www.beezone.com/AdiDa/jesusandme.html
7. www.dabase.net/oltawwfm.htm Heart Breaking Freedom