Aqvarivs,

I enjoy what you wrote.

Before 'sin' entered the world, Adam and Eve went about naked. They had no feeling of shame. When sin entered the world, so did a sense of shame. Adam and Eve then sought to cover up.

Morale of the story:

1. God never intended that we cover up any more than a male peacock ought to feel ashamed with pretty tail feathers in full bloom.

2. It's human that chose to cover up due to consciousness of shame, arising from a sinful nature. (Now hardly anyone question the need for clothes.)

3. From day one, it's not in God's nature that an unclothed person is a sinner. God will not strike us with lightning and fire from sky, if the whole world decided to go completely naked for two days.

4. This is completely logical and is consistent with Jesus's teaching which amounts to 'Lust equals Adultery', meaning...

5. Sin is a state of mind, not whether we wear clothes. If a fully-clothed man sees a naked woman and lusts for her, then the man has sinned. Importantly, not the woman. The woman is only a sinner if her nakedness is sinfully intended. Conversely, the woman has NOT sinned if her nakedness is NOT sinfully intended in her mind.

Islam has a completely different ethos, which is yet another clear distinction between Muslim Allah and Christian God.

Once a self-righteous Iranian Muslim told me that Islamic Iran is 'morally' superior because unlike western countries, Iran has very few rape cases (the reported ones, of course).

I could have told him Iran's in fact far worse than United States, because:

(a) Lust equals adultery. Iranian men lust no less than men anywhere else.
(b) When Muslim men rape, they blame the women. Hence they bear false witness.
(c) In Iran, there is very little a rape victim can do to seek justice.

I could also have told him, in the eyes of God he is an unashamed adulterer. He would certainly have hit the roof. Neither would his 'prophet' Muhammad accepted such an idea.

"It is extraordinary that you cite an example of inconsistency as an example of consistency "

No Rob, its only inconsistent if you make the flawed assumption that
all people see life from the same perspective, which they clearly
don't.

Any comment has to be taken in the context in which it is said
and by whom. You ignore these variables at your peril.

To all

As a victim of gang rape - I suggest that none of you know what you are talking about with regard to rape. It was in 1993 and I was 45 years if age.

I was not wearing provocative clothing and I had not been drinkng or drugging.

It was twilight (9pm) in Victoria. I was going for a walk on my holiday. It was a beautiful balmy evening.

I was dragged off the main street - pulled hehind a church and bashed to a pulp. Then they raped me. And after they raped me, they bashed me again. And then they robbed me - $20.

When they were caught, they admitted that they went out for the night to bash and rape a woman. They said that the bashing was the best part.

Rape is not about sex. It is about power and control. Sexual organs are the vehicle for power and control.

Kay

GZ Tan
I did not use the word or image of sin because sin is a decree on ones actions or thoughts relative to religious interpretation. Shame and guilt is laid at the door of ones existence prior to sin. The shame and guilt of existence. Man's eternal sin, or until the end of days. To lay that down on the head of a child and to raise that child into adulthood, using such a device for social control. It's not simple manipulation, it's a careful, measured attack on the human conscience and there is no psychic medicine to cure it's effects. ~800,000 people world wide commit suicide each year due to mental distress. Guilt and shame play a disproportional part in this. Not severe mental illness or the individuals sinful behavior in the eyes of God but, the individuals ability to reconcile the urge to celebrate life with the imposition of shame and guilt. Judaism and Christianity and Islam are not the natural belief systems of the world but, one imposed by victors of territory disputes and trade influences.

Aqvarivs,

Rightly or wrongly, guilt and shame are used as a device for social control.

Though religions have been used by victors of territory disputes and trade influences, I think the 'story' of Adam and Eve were not made up for social manipulation. I do believe that was how it was in the beginning.

In the meantime, enjoy some liberation (I think all the men look disgusting):

http://www.zombietime.com/world_naked_bike_ride_2006/

Adam and Eve are the justification of misogyny and for centuries con-men were able to convince the less thoughtful that a god does exist. God is the only justification for misogyny that a society has. But as God is most certainly fake (nobody who claims god exists bases their claim on an actual knowledge of God and that god is made up) there is no true justification for misogyny. The belief in God and the hatred of women or a female lack of self esteem is all the same thing. There is no point to it from a human perspective.Yabby is right humans are far superior to god. The reason being is because God is only to the extent as a believers imagination can invent a god.