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The Forum > Article Comments > The case for the defence - blame the cultural bogeyman > Comments

The case for the defence - blame the cultural bogeyman : Comments

By Waleed Aly, published 25/10/2005

Waleed Aly argues blaming cultural background and religion for criminal acts is an excuse for barbarism.

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Good article Waleed,

Its interesting that this excuse is never used in a Muslim/ Islamic country because rape and murder is punishable by death.

Maybe if the judge will say: "OK then, let me sentence you according to your culture or religion" this non-sense will be over.

I had a dinner last week with a father of two kids who went to school with the same MSK the gang rapist. They said he always mocked Islam and muslims, never prayed and he was 'trouble' to all Muslims. Yet he is OK with pinning his unhuman barbaric act on Islam.

Where was he when Mohamed (PBUH) said: "You are a Muslim when people are safe from your hand and your tongue".

Sometimes I wish for a jury duty on one of these case!
Posted by Fellow_Human, Tuesday, 25 October 2005 9:58:00 AM
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Waleed - There's nothing wrong with a lawyer using any possible defence to mitigate his clients actions. The problem is with our judges who tolerate this sort of defence. It's also disturbing when 12 average Australians are so intimidated by multiculturalism that their understanding of the word "tolerance" has been distorted and corrupted to the extent they feel obliged to not only listen to these defences but to accept them.
Posted by bozzie, Tuesday, 25 October 2005 7:00:14 PM
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All MSK and his siblings have to do is to have their case heard in Megan Latham's court. They'll get weekend detention and little else.

We can't rely on morals when the courts are morally bankrupt.
Posted by Sage, Tuesday, 25 October 2005 7:31:00 PM
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Waleed said <<<It won't do. No law or moral code of decency, least of all an Islamic one, tolerates the deplorable murder or rape of people,>>>

Firstly, before I deal with the above, F.H. yes, you make a good point, agreed.

Waleed, I find it incredulous that you as a Muslim would make a statement like this, apparently in either ignorance or denial of your own Quranic and Hadith traditions.

Quran 33:50 - "Prophet, We have made lawful to you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave girls whom God has given you as booty."

Please be reminded, this is your own book, not some 'western anti Islam commentary'

Hadith Bukhari 367

Anas said, 'When Allah's Apostle INVADED Khaibar..... (defensive ?)

We CONQUERED Khaibar, took the captives, and the booty was collected... (F.H. are u noting this ?)
The Prophet said, 'Go and take any slave girl.' He took Safiya binti Huyai

when the Prophet saw her...The Prophet then manumitted her and married her."

(Personal comment. The context indicates the marraige happened quite soon after the killing of her family. I find it hard to comprehend how she would willingly marry the man who orchestrated those killings.) F.H....comment ?

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 137:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah's Apostle about it and he said, "Do you really do that?" repeating the question thrice, "There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection.

Now, you may notice that I have not added anything but emphasis to these quotes from your traditions.
The reader can draw his/her own conclusions about where the behavior of Skaff and company came from.

The point is, when people come here, they are subject to 'our' laws, not their culture. Culture is NO defense for breaking our law.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Tuesday, 25 October 2005 9:10:15 PM
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Waleed,
I appreciate the honesty with which you have attacked this perversion of Islam. I ask how is it that people like the 9/11 also pervert Islam as Fellow_Human said today, Quote, “the Sep11 attackers were all well educated, wealthy people with no criminal records. Ayman Zawahry was a surgeon who never committed a traffic offence.”

From what documented Muslim authority, Qur’an etc, did they learn this theology that they were so convinced this murderous act carried virtue?
Posted by Philo, Tuesday, 25 October 2005 9:24:14 PM
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Here we go again.

It was the same sort of teaching that lead to Israeli Surgeon (a well educated and devout man)Baruch Goldstein murdering 29 Islamic worshippers on the 25th of February 1994.

It was the same sort of teaching that lead to the distruction of the Babri mosque in India by Hindus, once again, devout men, which lead in turn to intercommunal violence with thousands of mostly Moslem dead.

The same sort of teaching that lead to 37 black churches being firebombed in Mississippi, particularly the 1963 burning of a church where 4 schoolgirls were killed.

All actions carried out by 'good devout men'.

The attack on 11th September 2001 is inexcusable, as are the Bali bombings and the the London and Madrid bombings.

So lets not excuse them, but lets not blame the whole of Islam for them either, in same way that I would not claim that all jews were responsible for the actions of Baruch Goldstei, or all Hindus for the destruction of the Babri mosque.

To use religion as a justification, or provocation for any criminal acts is wrong, and I believe that this is the point of the original article.
Posted by Hamlet, Tuesday, 25 October 2005 11:26:31 PM
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