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The Forum > Article Comments > Israel's days of infamy > Comments

Israel's days of infamy : Comments

By Patrick Goodenough, published 25/8/2005

Patrick Goodenough argues Israel's eviction of settlers is an act of capitulation to terrorism which will cause more violence.

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A bit simplistic, Mr Goodenough.

The fact that Sharon demanded no quid pro quo is an unusual act in today's global political sphere. More often, we find that concessions are only given against assurances or concessions from the other party. Here we have a situation where one side of a dispute has taken unilateral action to establish some basis of goodwill, in an environment that has a history of nothing but antagonism. Will it work? Anybody's guess. But he gets high marks for trying, in my book. Don't ignore the fact also that he has a majority of Israel consistently supporting him in this action, according to the polls.

Whatever happens next is really down to the Palestinian Authority, the PLO and Hamas. What Sharon has given the PA is an opportunity to show that they can exert some control over their people - Gaza is a small concession in this context, and if they fail, voter resistance to any further appeasement will harden.

It is of course fashionable to be highly pessimistic on this point, and it is of course often true that the reward for appeasement to terrorists is more terrorism. However, as with Northern Ireland, there comes a point where political posturing has to give way to the underlying will of the people to live in some form of peace, and I think that acts of this nature show the right attitude.
Posted by Pericles, Thursday, 25 August 2005 12:50:44 PM
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Pericles, nice post. The previous cycle of retaliation was never going to be stopped by yet another hit back. Refusing to play the terrorists game anymore is not capitulation.

Patrick is probably correct in his statement that the hardliners want the lot. I'm hoping that the withdrawal from Gaza gives the moderates some room to move.

The tough step will be after the next extremist attrocity when Israel has to decide if they keep working for peace or get back to the old cycle. Returning to the old cycle is the true capitulation to terrorists.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Thursday, 25 August 2005 1:21:03 PM
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With American aid money it is the Israeli's who have become the terrorists with regard to the Palestinians.
More land is being taken from the Palestinians as I write. There can be no peace when a land is occupied by such a cruel ideology of people. Or did you forget that Patrick, it is occupied Palestinian land after all, against international law. I've had a gutfull of the crying and wailing from the Jews of Gaza, those who lived like kings, took all the good farmland, most of the water, and left over a million people destitute. Goes around comes around aye?

I'm pretty sure if the UN had handed over my countries land to a religious sect of people, based only upon their religious book, I would be up in arms, as would all Australian citizens who had homes and land that was rightfully theirs taken from them,
I suggest you do some reading on the history of Zionism, perhaps even visit some Jewish sites that are a lot more balanced than the right wing garbage you have spewed forth.
Whatever will Israel do when the aid from America dries up as her failing ecomomy brings down the superpower? Maybe Israel will be forced to act like a democracy and view all humam beings as worthy of equal treatment!
Posted by Janine, Thursday, 25 August 2005 2:09:50 PM
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The Israelis have long memories, and some of those memories are most instructive.

Does anyone wonder where Jesus found material for his “If your enemy persecutes you, give him bread” ?

II kings 6

Here it is... The Arameans were invading Israel, and Elisha was the prophet of the day..... The Arameans had been captured....

22 "Do not kill them," Elisha said "Would you kill men you have captured with your own sword or bow? Set food and water before them so that they may eat and drink and then go back to their master." 23 So he prepared a great feast for them, and after they had finished eating and drinking, he sent them away, and they returned to their master. So the bands from Aram stopped raiding Israel's territory.

So... kindness to one’s enemies resulted in a cessation of violence and attack.... but read on.
Such is the human heart.....

24 Some time later, Ben-Hadad king of ARAM mobilized his entire army and marched up and laid siege to Samaria. 25

Well, does anyone not on heavy duty vallium really believe that the Palestinians will be any different ? Of course they will, they will just sit in their newly returned land and enjoy the sun.

Thats why Mahmoud Abbass said in a recent televised speech “Today Gaza.. tomorrow JERUSALEM”......

So, what happened to the Israelites when the King of Aram came back for another go ?

25 There was a great famine in the city; the siege lasted so long that a donkey's head sold for eighty shekels [a] of silver, and a quarter of a cab [b] of seed pods [c] for five shekels. [d]
(verrrry expensive)

What happened next ?

1 Elisha said, "Hear the word of the LORD. This is what the LORD says: About this time tomorrow, a seah [a] of flour will sell for a shekel [b] and two seahs [c] of barley for a shekel at the gate of Samaria." (i.e.. cheap as chips)

Read the whole exciting story in II kings 6 :)

As I said.. Israelites have long memories
Posted by BOAZ_David, Thursday, 25 August 2005 3:21:28 PM
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Assuming all that is true David. That's the problem with the whole 'chosen people' mentality - is that it cannot be verified. And holding onto a grudge for well over 2000 years can hardly be healthy.

As for Patrick Goodenough's article - it would be much more constructive for the world to take Israel's example in this instance. Concessions and compromises have been instigated by both sides. One should not underestimate the value, the symbolism (particularly to the Palestinian people themselves) of Hamas' truce in the period leading up to the Gaza withdrawal. Sure there were flashpoints on both sides - but generally the two dire foes of the region, Hamas and the IDF, held back on mass bloodshed, in the vein of what we've seen in the last few years, in the hopes that a break through between Abu Mazen and Sharon could be achieved. Stepping stones, the first of which - dialogue (the first of many stones), that wonderful establishment of communication, the forebearer of understanding, the enlightener in an otherwise, dim and despairing realm. How can you solve a crisis without dialogue? You can't. And if the Americans and the British and the Australians were wise, they would seek what Israel has sought, a counterpart to deal with, and begin the resolving of issues that have only festered at the end of a gun's nozzle.

And finally, Patrick and his ilk, on both sides of the conflict, have every right to feel uncertain, fearful, defensive etc. It is human nature after all to fear what we don't know or understand. And in this case, in this region, the unknown is Hope.
Posted by Nick I., Thursday, 25 August 2005 4:06:45 PM
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What an absolute load of rubbish, Janine. The Jews “took all the good farmland, most of the water, and left over a million people destitute”

In a manner that can only be described as ignorant, you fail to mention that it was the result of Jewish efforts to build a community- not a state- in their homeland before WWII that made this ‘good farmland’- much of which was given to the Palestinians as part of the original partition plan. And how can you possible place the blame for the destitution of the Palestinian Arabs on the Jews (you don’t even bother to be polite and say Zionists)?

Arab instituted wars and Arafat deserve the credit for the crappy state of the Palestinian Arabs today, not the “Jews”.

The UN wouldn’t need to give the Jewish people a state had it not been for the refusal of the Arabs to live in peace with any so-called infidels.

And perhaps you are forgetting East Jerusalem was offered as the capital for a future Palestinian state in 2000- the importance of former PM Barak’s offer has gone unnoticed.

What have the Palestinians ever offered the Jews of Israel, apart from the their children strapped with explosives?

Try reading something that hasn’t been written by Chomsky or Said.

You are right about something, though- what goes around comes around… I’m sure we’ll see what the future holds for Palestinian murderers and anti-Semites.
Posted by wrighta, Thursday, 25 August 2005 4:49:38 PM
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