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The Forum > Article Comments > Way to cheaper electricity littered with false conceptions > Comments

Way to cheaper electricity littered with false conceptions : Comments

By Graham Young, published 2/10/2018

Power prices are not an issue that should ever have become hostage to politics, and they are not one that will be ignored in an election campaign.

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The ACCC looked at direct costs of renewables such as feed-in tariffs and the LGC and STC subsidies. Harder to quantify are indirect costs such as frequency correction and new transmission requirements. The 2014 RET Review found the cost of CO2 avoided was $54 per tCO2 when the carbon tax was $24.15. Now subsidies are double what they were then.

In Germany some are saying forget subsidies and just rely on CO2 pricing. Many of our political leaders like to throw money at their favourites to 'prove' they are a winner compared to say nuclear. Federal minister Angus Taylor has said the gravy train stops in 2020 but I'd bet otherwise. AEMO has changed its mind about the reliability of Victoria's new wind and solar build. For weeks Tasmania has been sending 400-500 MW via cable but that must stop with a big dry. Back to gas at any price.
Posted by Taswegian, Tuesday, 2 October 2018 9:56:25 AM
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It's all been made too complicated. Most people rely on the lying main stream media for their information. The cause of the problem is, as always, government. Politicians have meddled in the market.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 2 October 2018 10:02:06 AM
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What more than anything else is diving up energy prices are government agencies, who think? Price gouged profits are their personal ATM!

So also the operating capital of any number of cash cow essential services, that then need to respond to stay in business with higher and higher margins?

Renewable lobbyists are their own worst enemy as they campaign against affordable, reliable, SAFE, clean nuclear energy. on nothing more than fact-free fearmongering. And in so doing, ensure we are chained to coal!

What's missing in this space is genuine competition between carbon-free alternatives two of which would be homebrewed biogas connected to very local ceramic fuel cells.
The other is MSR thorium.

The missing competition is created by a complete rejection of cooperative capitalism. When we absolutely must preference and foster it with all means possible ASAP!

BECAUSE, co-ops almost alone, where the only private enterprise, free-market model to survive the Great Depression mostly intact. even as giant corporations were going to the wall.

Genuine cooperative capitalism, rejected by the extreme right on idiotic ideological grounds?

Affordable carbon-free nuclear energy alone would allow us to not just drought-proof Australia, but allow us to survive when we cross the climate change tipping point and subsequent worldwide catastrophe on a hitherto unheralded scale?

By going under polycarbonate, underground and transporting our exported trade commodities by submersible shipping. Because if we the world, cross that tipping point? We will have few other choices!

Each drought is sure to be worse than all those we've lived through and survived. Moreover, those we face in an uncertain future can only be worse. given a tiny window of opportunity is rapidly closing.

As our Leaders do their best impressions of Nero fiddling as Rome burns? Or seek to feather theirs or conies nests, or leap to obey, when ordered by a tiny minority of, if powerful, vested interest?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Tuesday, 2 October 2018 1:24:40 PM
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There seems to be a major deficiency in Graham Young's comprehension here. He criticises the 48% "wanting coal-fired power stations closed as soon as possible" on the grounds that it wouldn't be possible! It doesn't seem to occur to him that the 48% know immediate closure is not possible, and therefore have a more realistic understanding of what "as soon as possible" means.

He also fails to understand that although the measures to encourage more renewables increase electricity prices, having more generation from renewables puts downward pressure on wholesale prices. And that privatisation led to rampant profiteering even before there were any wind turbines on the grid.

The way to cheaper electricity is indeed littered with false conceptions... most of which are being pushed by him, the fossil fuel lobby and the government.

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Taswegian,
Sad to hear you're affected by the big dry too. But why resort to gas rather than wind?

As for frequency correction, my state as solved the problem - see http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-02/tesla-battery-proves-a-leading-source-of-dispatchable-power/10326420
Posted by Aidan, Tuesday, 2 October 2018 1:25:43 PM
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Aidan
when the big dry hits Tas it's likely that high pressure systems will slow the wind even if we build 10X as many windmills. Hence gas and diesel will be required.

Unwittingly you are confirming Graham Young's point about irrational belief in renewables and storage. The Hornsdale battery does microsecond frequency correction which is a problem caused by so many windmills. It will not power SA through a hot day. For example on one hot day last year SA appeared to use about 2h X 3000 MW = 6000 Mwh between 6 pm and 8 pm.
http://www.wattclarity.com.au/articles/2017/02/initial-analysis-sa-load-shedding-wed-8-feb-2017/
Hornsdale's 129 Mwh is a drop in the bucket. Problem not solved.
Posted by Taswegian, Tuesday, 2 October 2018 1:54:50 PM
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I find difficulty in comprehending the gap between what PM Scott Morrison and his MPs say about electricity going down in price and how the government plans to make or help this to happen.

Before becoming PM he said he 'pledged to lower electricity prices' and told The Sydney Morning Herald (28 Aug) that the government would 'put electricity prices down'. Sounds like good news for the common folks!

After his new cabinet met, he said that govt. would lower prices by setting a 'safety net on price'. What is that? The govt. would use 'the big stick' to get the big energy companies to do the right thing by customers.

There was talk of whether or not Morrison and company would continue with the National Energy Guarantee and the Paris climate agreement.

As we know from the South Australian black-outs in 2017, renewables can't maintain reliable electricity supply across the nation.

I'm waiting to hear something from the govt. about what it plans to do with establishing new clean coal-fired and/or nuclear powered electricity generators. Will that help to lower prices? If not, what will?

Using the 'big stick' threat may work with 7-year-olds but I don't expect the profit-oriented energy companies to accept readily the need to give ordinary Aussies a good deal on electricity.
Posted by OzSpen, Tuesday, 2 October 2018 1:57:32 PM
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