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The Forum > Article Comments > A genuine left would support Western Civilisation > Comments

A genuine left would support Western Civilisation : Comments

By David McMullen, published 1/6/2018

I guess we are supposed to look back lovingly at all those civilisations that crumbled in the face of the western onslaught, for example, Czarist Russia, Qing China, Mughal India, Ottoman MENA and Aztec Mesoamerica.

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The Left is the Left; nothing “pseudo” about it. And it is hardly surprising that it would want to block anything at all to do with Western civilisation: it hates Western civilisation and intends to bring it down. It is doing just that, now, as the Right either waffles or buries its head further in the sand.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 1 June 2018 9:23:48 AM
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Ttbn

You articulate dead arguments well. But as arguing a point from baselessness goes, it's inevitable down a bush track.

You also confuse politics with a boing out of date premise of a left and right.

The greatest difficulty of any Governing system is accomodating it's autonomous citizens.
It's not a left and right thing.

Our governance needs to smarten up and quickly if it's to be of use: otherwise we head to the wide road of civil war.
Posted by diver dan, Friday, 1 June 2018 9:45:56 AM
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Agree with most of this and add the following observations.
When mankind made carbon its slave instead of people, we became (more or less) civilized.
And with every new source of energy and its utilization, made rapid forward technological steps along with accelerated economic growth! Putting a man on the moon,e.g., may have seemed an enormous waste of valuable resources? And only true if you discount or dismiss the associated technological spinoffs!
That said, we have tethered all these advantages and technological advancement to a highly flawed economic paradigm and compounded that idiocy by coupling it to fatuous and fundamentally flawed, ideological imperatives and unrepayable debt, that serves nobody!
Every western style economy, rest on just two support pillars, energy and capital!
And because we made the fatal error or privatising both have allowed the Shylocks in our midst to extract their pound of flesh for their involvement and captive market control/price gouging! When these things should be managed and controlled by the society/economy that created them!
And for the ultimate and maximised benefit of that society and homegrown entrepreneurs!
To that end, we need to completely jettison our highly convoluted tax system and replace it with an entirely unavoidable 15% flat rate that everyone above the agreed threshold pays!
Then as the final pieces of the economic jigsaw, fully embrace both cooperative capitalism and social credit. Thereby recreating the economic miracles of post-war Australia, America, Japan, the tiger economies and the Celtic economic miracle!
The definition of insanity is to keep doing what you've done while expecting different outcomes!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Friday, 1 June 2018 11:23:02 AM
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>The Left is the Left; nothing “pseudo” about it.

There's more than one Left. There's the Marxist Left (where David McMullen's obviously from) and the PC Left (which he's criticising). Both groups want to define who's part of the Left, and IMO he has more claim to do so than those like you who despise all the Lefts (including the Marxists, the PC crowd, and people like me who are neither).

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Alan B.,
Carbon didn't directly replace slavery. For a millennium in between, we relied heavily on animals.
Our economy rests on many more pillars than energy and capital. There's water, information and ideas...
A 15% flat tax system is highly undesirable. If we want real tax reform, the best approach would be a broad based tax on the unimproved value of land. That would avoid land price bubbles, and would make better infrastructure more economically viable. The trouble is such a tax would have to be phased in over many decades to avoid unfairly disadvantaging existing landowners.
Posted by Aidan, Friday, 1 June 2018 11:09:42 PM
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Left and right is an outmoded concept. It makes little sense viewing the political scene today globally through that lens.

This is a Humanist V Theist world. The left right paradigms, are extensions of a moral argument raging between the former two.

Calling Malcom Turnbull a leftist is laughable. Calling him a neoliberal-humanist, suddenly sheds light on his position.
Keep in mind, the SSM bill recently passed through parliament, came from his side of the fence. So, Marxists have infiltrated the Liberal party have they? And that through the facility of Turnbull.
That's a laughable position.

This concept also helps explain the seemingly strange position some take in defending the rights of Muslims, to live and practice their religion in our society in peace. Nothing whatsoever connected to a left right concept.

Read Pinker, the arch neocon-humanist, who considers all is well in spreading the wealth of the West to the poor of the world, (leftist world government tag by some here), at any cost to the poor of the West, since poverty is simply relative.
Posted by diver dan, Saturday, 2 June 2018 7:00:57 AM
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As always Adian has a persistent predilection find something not quite perfect that he can critigue! And as a result, often winds up lambasting or contradicting his own earlier input! And done to eat up the adversaries word limits! And believes everybody else is too dumb to see through his juvenile subterfuge.
Yes Adian, we didn't go directly to carbon, but used water, animals and slaves to accomplish most tasks!
The Romans invented the steam engine, but only as an interesting novelty hat spun. And the industrial age of steam was not universal but phased in with time. Even as some cultus remain locked in a Wheeless stone age!
As for land tax. as a landowner being screwed by ever-rising rates! I think that it's a dumb idea, that puts already unaffordable housing even further away from the masses!
As always, in your flight to microscopic pedanticism, you completely miss any element of fairness or basic common sense in your lofty dehumanized prognostications!
And just as most of humanity, but not all, have made carbon their slave.
It behoves us to embrace the nuclear age and energy that is cheaper than coal, cleaner than coal and safer than coal Without question every western style economy rest on two critical support pillars energy and capital!
And proven if you remove either one or both!!
The other things you rate as pillars are available as naturally occurring like water etc.
I'm talking about western style economies and you as per usual are patently preoccupied with pedantic puerile point scoring!
Like some narcissistic egoistic puffed up popinjay!
TBC Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Saturday, 2 June 2018 11:10:38 AM
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