The Forum > Article Comments > Let's end the propaganda war on coal > Comments
Let's end the propaganda war on coal : Comments
By John Iser, published 22/2/2018Impervious to the loud rumblings about coal's terminal decline and the need to leave it in the ground, the Minerals Council of Australiacontinues to be a passionate enthusiast.
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Posted by ant, Thursday, 22 February 2018 8:28:52 AM
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“ A 2017 poll found an overwhelming 81 per cent of Australians wanted policymakers to focus on renewables, such as wind and solar instead.” That was 1202 people in the first three weeks of March 2017 – a year ago. They might have changed their minds by now, if they even had their minds made up at the time they were polled.
How many people have actually been thinking about the subject of a poll when when they are suddenly ambushed by a person asking questions on things they don't spend much time thinking about? This is just another personal opinion from a 'Doctor for the environment'. Just another person using a totally unrelated degree to make us think he knows all the answers. Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 22 February 2018 8:32:09 AM
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TTBN. I think we might agree that the author hasn't provided any answers. Within the next couple of decades, most of Australia's coal fired power stations aare going to need replacing, and while it might be nice to think that renewables will do the job when the sun is shining and the wind is blowing, we won't be able to rely on storage for the rest of the time. What do all the brains out there think we are going to do if we keep putting our heads in the sand and reject modern nuclear power?
David Posted by VK3AUU, Thursday, 22 February 2018 9:26:45 AM
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John, if you are going to quote propaganda statistics such as 1500 people die from coal-related diseases in Australia every year then have the courtesy to say "implied deaths" rather than deaths. The 1,500 figure (more than the road toll) is straight nonsense, of course. If you go and look at whatever survey you based it on, you'll find that they've made massive assumptions about the fraction of deaths from other causes can be attributed to emissions. You see the same approach to deaths caused by domestic abuse, car exhausts and the like. Every death in Australia, it seems, is due to multiple causes. As the vast bulk of the Australian population don't live anywhere a coal plant, even the implied deaths estimate is very dodgy.
As for the death of thermal coal if you look at thermal coal prices https://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=coal-australian&months=60 you will be unpleasantly surprised. They are now back above the spike of late 2016 (they fell to a low during the GFC). An increase in demand from Asia and static supply in Australia is behind the increase, as I understand it. The industry has certainly had a shake out but that happens in all industries. There is no indication that thermal coal is about to collapse, or that wind and solar are going to take over its role any time this century, or the next. Gas and hydro are shrinking coal's market share in some countries. Smelting coal (60 per cent of exports) is unaffected by any of this.. Posted by curmudgeonathome, Thursday, 22 February 2018 9:27:00 AM
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BHP can see the writing on the wall. In crude terms their biggest coal mine Mt Arthur creates about 500 petajoules a year of thermal energy but Olympic Dam uranium creates about 2500 PJ.
Coal is what warms bedraggled orphans in Dickens novels. You'd think well into the 21st century we would have moved on. Posted by Taswegian, Thursday, 22 February 2018 9:48:40 AM
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I'm sick of scum like you, trying to shut the country down, raise the cost of power and making business less profitable; you think it's 'a good cause' to go to war against the average Joe.
I love coal, and you should be ashamed of yourself. Coal has provided me and the people I care for with a stable source of electricity throughout our lives, and to live a much easier life with a level of modern technology than would've been possible otherwise. It also provided a lot of jobs that put a lot of food on a lot of families tables. - I suppose you've got a problem with that too hey? If you hate coal, fossil fuels, electricity and the like. Then you should go back to horse and cart. I will complain about the effects of your animals flatulence on the environment, as well as its pooping on our roads. And don't expect to use your computer to complain to us because that uses electricity powered by coal. Just sit there with your happy family under your candle light telling stories, singing songs and cooking your meals over your open fire so I can again call you a hypocrite for daring to emit CO2 which is damaging the environment. Don't forget to crap in a bucket, because your ceramic toilet was probably made using heat or electricity as well. Quote "In Australia, an estimated 1500 deaths occur annually from coal related diseases and coal mining has resulted in the reemergence of black lung disease in Queensland." Lol. Why don't you go ahead and name them all for us? - The real story - http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/dennis-shanahan/green-campaign-against-australian-coal-trail-leads-to-john-podesta/news-story/42784b8b30e0ab18d7386054189a0933?nk=c4ca18793436fe7ad65b4580e8edca65-1519254857 Sorry for the long link. Look, there's nothing wrong with promoting better technologies such as solar. But you don't turn the friggin power off, raise the cost of producing goods putting Aussies out of work and deindustrialising the country before we get there you stupid morons. If that's what you think - then do the country a favour and kick yourself off a cliff. The real answer is Thorium MSR anyway. Posted by Armchair Critic, Thursday, 22 February 2018 9:52:54 AM
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What you have stated is well known.
But, put on your hard hat, you are likely to get much abuse.
The irony is that aerosols tend to reduce the increase in temperature to an extent; once less fossil fuels are used, aerosols will dissipate, the unfortunate result will be an increase in temperature. Another argument for getting away from fossil fuels as soon as ever possible.
Apart from Health costs, MunichRe have indicated that the cost of dealing with storms such as Irma, Harvey and Maria will set record levels. Those storms were not created by climate change but were intensified as a result.
https://www.munichre.com/en/media-relations/publications/press-releases/2018/2018-01-04-press-release/index.html
It is not hard to find references which back the views expressed by MunichRe; i.e., severe damage has happened in 2017, apart from the major storms mentioned.