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The Forum > Article Comments > The falling star called democracy > Comments

The falling star called democracy : Comments

By Arturo Bris, published 8/3/2017

There are other problems with democracy: importantly, democratic outcomes can often flat out just not make any sense.

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Democracy! What democracy, the very best money can buy, or ours where compulsory preferencing and how to vote cards, manipulates it away from the average mug out there in mugsville!

We have no rights that can't be stripped at the whim and caprice of a legislature, often the personal plaything of a tyrannical autocrat? Why you can't even defend yourself in your own home, with criminals having more rights than the home or business owner!

And names like John howard and Anna Bligh come immediately to mind in connection with that Tyrant description. Mr Howard free to disagree all while rigidly resisting a proof of the pudding, bill of rights.

Recent changes to the senate voting arrangements, have very likely improved our democracy just a tad and need to be also adopted for the lower house or just make preferencing optional!

Political parties need to be far more democratic inside their organisations, with all political donations of more than a thousand dollars needing to be posted within days of donation!

Otherwise, democracy is for sale and to the highest bidder with the deepest pockets? And look how difficult that factor has made, ending tax avoidance?

Direct democracy is probably impossible here, but not a bill of irrevocable rights replete with a citizens initiated referendum and proportional representation.

Just don't expect either of the two major parties to support the concept, unless dragged there kicking and screaming, nor the implications for them, inherent in bona fide democracy!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Wednesday, 8 March 2017 8:54:52 AM
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Australia, one of the 'oldest democracies in the world' as it is often called, is living proof that democracy is lessening rather than growing. Nobody could reasonably call what passes for government in Australia now, democracy. The most obvious sign of this is the abomination called the 'Senate' – an 'unelected swill', as it was correctly referred to by one-time Prime Minister, Paul Keating. Compulsory and preferential voting is another undemocratic imposition on the people.

I like the 'hobbit and hooligans' reference but, as these two classes are in the majority, this Professor Brennan is wrong in saying that “ democratic outcomes are not only not representative of the majority’s true views”. There is nothing wrong with democracy; it is the only way – it is the ignorant majority that is at fault because it simply does not understand how the system is supposed to work. Referring to politicians as 'leaders' and 'the honourable' is the big clue to the ignorance here.

Never was there a more accurate truism than 'we get the politician that we deserve'. We Australians certainly deserve the trash in Canberra and the States that we have now. We have not shown these 'servants' who the boss really is - us! Every day, tales of corruption by politicians reach us – the latest being the awful Senator Cash. Our total tool of a Prime Minister says he is displeased, the perpetrator of the fraud apologises, and that's the end of the matter. If politicians acted they way they do on our dollar in the private sector, their feet would not touch the ground on their way out. Yet, these insults to democracy carry on for years, thanks to the 'hobbits' and the 'hooligans', ripping off the public purse and retiring to massive, unearned pensions with the possibility of a cushy sinecure to continue their corruption in a new field they know nothing about.

And the really tragic thing? Nothing will ever be done about it.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 9:18:34 AM
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Thank you, Arturo - Indeed, the king is naked!

Although Alan and Ttbn are correct in claiming that democracy was never in fact ever yet tried, this is not a bug, but a feature of democracy:

If others whom you never appointed are able to control your life, directing what you may or may not do, then what difference does it make at the bottom line whether those others happen to be some kind of a majority or say, a monarch?

Having individual and group freedoms has little to do with the type of government: the only way to ensure those freedoms, is to make the states as small as possible, so that those who are unhappy with the regime can migrate nearby relatively easily and so those smaller states will need to compete among themselves over individual and group freedoms in order to retain their productive population.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 9:33:23 AM
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Hi Alan,

So what are you ripping into, democracy or autocracy ? Surely we have to find ways of improving this imperfect thing called democracy (which belongs to all of us) and oppose any move towards autocracy (which won't) ?

Would you say that Trump represents a strengthening of democracy or a push (putsch ?) towards autocracy ? Right or wrong, idiots or not, I think the people out in the streets are perfectly entitled to exercise their democratic rights to put forward their messages. I don't think that Trump can rule by tweet, or jail whoever he pleases (yes, that might be coming). P. J. O'Rourke calls him the big bully at the back of the classroom. Spot on.

Democracy has to be 'muscular': if you don' exercise it, you lose it.

Cheers,

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 10:12:50 AM
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Autocrats and bullies my bug bear Joe. The latter I've never bowed to but when still abled bodied shirt fronted a few. With often surprising results, some of which includes running home to mama tears streaming from their eyes. As for autocrats, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Resolute leaders are never afraid of freedom, nor arguing their case or courage of conviction, or knowing what they stand for! And which lines can never be crossed, or what can't be bought or sold, even with all the gold and treasure in the entire world!

And inside those character traits a Leader can be as muscular as they come, and even have a few flaws!? And you just can't put-in what isn't there, nor trump it with a big fat cheque book filled with other folk's misappropriated funds?

I believe war hero President Kennedy was just such a leader, even with his reported "flaws".

I watched in open mouthed admiration as he dressed down colluding price gouging industrialists, much as in the manner of a principle, dressing down errant schoolboys, or the leader speaking frankly and fearlessly to a bunch of treacherous Benedict Arnolds.

And he successfully embarrassed them beyond belief and forced free fair open market competition once again, as the first consequence. And that is why he was assassinated, I believe, still in his prime?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Wednesday, 8 March 2017 1:16:56 PM
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Is this guy for real?

Why should only citizens have the vote.
Why do you have to be over 18.
Why can’t I vote in American elections.
We shouldn’t vote on Brexit because future generations might disagree with our decision, but then again, they might not.

“democracy … protects the lower class against the excesses of any ruling minority. However this premise was recently proven wrong [in a] study … that showed democracy does not seem to have any significant effect on income inequality.”
So democracy is only good if it helps “the lower class” rip off the wealthier class to the degree that there is no longer income inequality?
Posted by Edward Carson, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 2:16:59 PM
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