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The Forum > Article Comments > Unsettled Malcolm Roberts queries United Nation's science > Comments

Unsettled Malcolm Roberts queries United Nation's science : Comments

By John Nicol and Jennifer Marohasy, published 16/9/2016

At high altitudes, the greenhouse gases provide the only mechanism for the radiation of heat from the atmosphere to space.

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"In Moreton Bay Queensland in 2000 Lyngbya algae destroyed 30-40 sq km of seagrass and associated small fish production for the year."

Wow. And for a while there I thought you were making an argument about the global oceans, and global fisheries, and global warming. You've obviously shown how the world's fisheries and climate are all dominated by a 30 to 40 sq km problem. Well done! I'll call the newspapers: JF has disproved climate change and overfishing!
Posted by Max Green, Monday, 17 October 2016 2:33:27 PM
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Max requests irony.
"A French logging company and official partner of the World Wildlife Fund (WWF) is deforesting a huge area of rainforest in southeast Cameroon without the consent of local Baka “Pygmies” who have lived there and managed the land for generations, Survival International has learned."
"According to a recent report produced by the EU, not a single logging company is operating legally in Cameroon. Experts say that no logging activities are being carried out at sustainable levels.
Evidence shows that tribal peoples are the best conservationists and guardians of the natural world. Despite this, WWF has preferred to partner with international corporations that destroy the environment’s best allies – tribal peoples."
http://www.survivalinternational.org/news/11107

Max says "The albedo of patches of the earth is easily measured by satellites." Well do us a quick easy favour then and provide a link to the albedo at the two main CO2 back radiation wavelengths. If it does not measure how much back radiation is reflected then don't bother.
More desertification irony for ya.
Rising carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere have increased plant growth across the planet over the past three decades, a new study has found.
A few areas on Earth have browned but the vast majority have greened
Plant coverage has grown by 18 million square kilometres in a few decades
The main cause is increase in atmospheric CO2
Nitrogen from agricultural fertilisers has also contributed"
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-26/global-snapshot-shows-how-humans-are-greening-the-earth/7346382
With all that greening of the deserts is photosynthesis endothermic cooling to combat the solar wind albedo warming. Good stuff all round that CO2. Great for undoing WWF damage.
JF Aus
"Algae is not inundating open oceans generally as could be expected if caused by excessive common CO2."
You would only expect to see a tiny global increase. Enough to increase the global backradiation albedo up a few tens of W/M^2 maybe. However it could also decrease the visible (Solar) albedo and cause some surface warming at the same time as cooling at depth. Your nutrients however would cause many many local algae increases all around the globe.

No comments about Fukushima anyone?
Posted by Siliggy, Monday, 17 October 2016 4:34:00 PM
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Siliggy,

I do not see algae inundating open ocean generally but there are some considerable patchy masses that I think definitely absorb and retain solar heat at least into hours of night, for example numerous areas of sargassum mats in the Atlantic Ocean.

Warmth on a mat of algae on the surface of a pond can be felt on the back of a human hand, whereas warmth in single micrio particle of common green chlorophyll micro algae in open ocean is perhaps presently impossible to measure.
I think warmth in algae does exist momentarily and must have impact collectively.

I used to use an underwater light meter and that led to being able to visually assess the f stop required for exposing film depending on underwater visibility and depth, cloud or sunshine.
So yes I consider there has been an increase in micro algae in open ocean but close up it appears very slight.

Collectively en masse from ocean worldwide I think that if the total mass was for example compacted all together, that mass would likely form a very thick dense barrier impossible for sunlight to penetrate.

All that algae is waterlogged and the mass in total including algae blooms worldwide, I think is quite considerable. And the anthropogenic fed amount of that that mass would not be there if the anthropogenic nutrient pollution did not exist to grow that algae.

As for albedo, there is enough increase in open ocean algae to be noticed on a light meter. Collectively considering reflection from the whole ocean surface, there could be change to albedo.

And it's the total modern day impact of algae from all sources that may matter and that should be measured and assessed in climate science.
But I note in a couple of those links above that scientists cannot even afford enough buoys fitted with technology to measure temperature at various depths at the same time.
Posted by JF Aus, Tuesday, 18 October 2016 6:58:59 AM
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The 30 to 40 sq km area of seagrass loss at Amity Banks in Moreton Bay Queensland during 2000, provides evidence of how nutrient pollution damage to ocean ecosystems is occurring, spreading, worsening and impacting whole ocean food supply.

The same species of cyanobacteria algae at Amity occurred at about the same time at Deception Bay in Moreton Bay.
Within 6 months of the Amity devastation that same algae species was identified causing damage in inshore waters of the Whitsunday Islands, in the Great Barrier Reef ecosystem north of Mackay, downstream from Moreton Bay.

Migratory seafood dependent animals cross oceans in constant search of food, some travel annually from waters of Alaska to waters of South Australia and Tasmania. Schools of fish come from New Zealand to Australia to feed and vice versa.

When some ocean feeding animals are unable to find food in local feeding grounds they impact on food supply of other animals in other feeding grounds, including up and down coastlines, or they die due to starvation.

When mutton birds are unable to find sufficient food to store fat and energy in Alaskan waters are sometimes already emaciated when they arrive in Australia’s devastated waters.

Devastation of the food ecosystem in Moreton Bay is significant.
Over 90 percent of seagrass has been lost from the southern Moreton Bay – Nerang River estuary alone.
Pilchards and herring and other food web fish are seagrass dependent.
Brisbane airport development has devastated massive areas of wetland and mangroves and seagrass nurseries, and for the first time known mutton bird starvation and mass mortality recently occurred from further north at Mackay Queensland and all the way to South Australia.

Added predation on small fish at Mackay in the GBR lagoon deprives local GBR fishes and birds of their local food supply, causing those animals to feed elsewhere.

Continued……….
Posted by JF Aus, Tuesday, 18 October 2016 7:30:04 AM
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Cont’d……….

Predatory fish include voracious mackerel and kingfish and wahoo that snap up coral reef local fish that should be protecting coral from crown of thorns starfish impact (COTS).
Some juvenile coral dwelling fish eat tiny COTS larvae.
With less predation on COTS the result is surely obvious.

Look at the big picture because it’s a big ocean.
Migratory predators unable to find food on the western Pacific Ocean coast of Australia are likely to impact on food supply elsewhere, including on food in Alaskan waters as mutton birds prove.

If seabirds are unable to find enough food how could tuna and salmon and whales find enough?
When unable to find food in one area the predators impact on other devastated feeding grounds or die due to inadequate nutrition – starvation.

Importantly, ocean food web nurseries are rare in comparison with the size of the world ocean.
The nurseries require bay and estuary and lagoon waters sheltered by land or shallow reef.
Land covers only about 30 percent of this watery planet, calm coastal areas are considerably less.

I can’t wait till the penny drops with realization algae is killing the ocean and changing climate too
Posted by JF Aus, Tuesday, 18 October 2016 7:32:24 AM
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JF is again posting all the stuff going on in his internal world from his years of personal experience. Subjective much? Data measured by peer-review doesn't enter the equation.

Siliggy asked about albedo: here's a link.
http://scied.ucar.edu/planetary-energy-balance-temperature-calculate

The reality is, I've got bored feeding the trolls. There's only so many times I can say the same things. Goodbye for now.
Posted by Max Green, Tuesday, 18 October 2016 7:41:35 AM
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