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The Forum > Article Comments > Abbas abandons peace negotiations with Israel > Comments

Abbas abandons peace negotiations with Israel : Comments

By David Singer, published 24/8/2016

Mahmoud Abbas’s decision to prosecute Britain for publishing the 1917 Balfour Declaration amounts to an outright rejection of the right of the Jewish people to have their own state.

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There will never be peace in the Middle East while Iran, hezbollah and hamas are allowed to flourish. Discussion is futile. Action against these three evil entities is necessary to give peace and security to Israel. There is just no point in talking about peace any longer. There will be no peace until the West takes charge.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 24 August 2016 10:37:31 AM
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David Abbas is not the only one who doesn't think Israel is illegitimate, try this on for size:

Back in 1956, David Ben-Gurion, possibly struggling with his conscience, confessed:

“If I were an Arab leader, I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural, we have taken their country. Sure God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We came from Israel, it’s true, but that was two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?”

Food for thought eh!
Posted by Geoff of Perth, Wednesday, 24 August 2016 11:07:21 AM
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Law of the Jungle is chimpanzees ganging up and screeching at other dead chimpanzees. British and New Guinea leaders wore large bird-feathers in their hats when they met. Turkish guns became British guns became Jewish guns became Hamas guns and the most bullets decided what is Law. Wild West it is.
Posted by nicknamenick, Wednesday, 24 August 2016 3:10:27 PM
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Yes Geoff, food for thought indeed and more power to your prehensile thumb old mate.
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Wednesday, 24 August 2016 5:15:56 PM
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Meanwhile the systematic dispossession of the Palestinians continues unabated, and ramped up too:
http://mondoweiss.net/2016/08/israel-demolishes-palestinian
And of course the Jewish people do not have any right to their own "homeland", nor are they the "chosen people", nor did "god" promise the biblical lands to them.
And if Israel is such an integral factor in David's Jewish "identity", and therefore his "homeland" why doesn't he go and live there.

Meanwhile how many billions of dollars does the USA government (or the long suffering USA taxpayer) give to Israel every year, when all over the country USA infrastructure is falling apart, and millions of USA citizens are either homeless and/or live in tent-"city" poverty.
Posted by Daffy Duck, Wednesday, 24 August 2016 6:18:41 PM
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#Geoff

1. You do not quote in full what Ben Gurion is supposedly alleged to have said - which was:

"I don't understand your optimism. Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been antisemitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So, it's simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army. Our whole policy is there. Otherwise the Arabs will wipe us out."

2. You do not attribute the source for this quote which was "The Jewish Paradox : A personal memoir (1978) by Nahum Goldmann" . The ostensibly verbatim statement taken from a private conversation in about 1956 was not published by Goldmann during Ben Gurion's lifetime — when Ben Gurion could have disputed it — but only five years after he died.

3. The unsubstantiated quote is one favored on extreme anti-Zionist Web sites specializing in attributing bogus anti-Arab statements to Israeli leaders. You are obviously one of their most avid readers.

#Alan B

Sorry mate - not food for thought but food for the garbage compactor.

#Daffy

All demolitions are of unauthorized buildings and structures after having been so determined by the Israeli Courts.

The Jews right to reconstitute their national home in Palestine was unanimously approved by the League of Nations and preserved by the United Nations.

Like Geoff - you need to get away from Jew-hating web sites and ascertain the real facts of the Arab-Jewish conflict.

Keep reading my articles which will help you no end.
Posted by david singer, Wednesday, 24 August 2016 9:10:33 PM
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Actually I pulled the quote from the link below and if you read the full post there you may learn a little more truth than the garbage you espouse.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/08/22/the-genocide-of-a-land-paul-craig-roberts/

Cheers
Geoff
Posted by Geoff of Perth, Thursday, 25 August 2016 12:16:32 AM
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#Geoff
Thank you for telling us the source for your incomplete quote of what Ben Gurion supposedly said.

I make the following observations:

1. Your source is an article by Paul Craig Roberts that contains Ben Gurion’s supposed quote.

2. Paul Roberts’ article is titled “The Genocide of a Land” – which marks him as one of those rabid Jew haters to which I referred. Anyone using the term “genocide” in relation to the Palestinian Arabs is peddling a falsity since their population is not being wiped out but is increasing with every passing year.

3. Roberts attributes the Ben Gurion quote to having appeared in an article by Thomas L Are – not its original source which was the 1978 article by Goldmann.

4. A perusal of Are’s site shows he used the quote and attributed it to having appeared in the following articles:
“This quote is documented in numerous sources. I refer to the book by Don Wagner and Walt Davis, Zionism and the Quest for Justice in the Holy Land. (Pickwick Publications, 2014) p.21. And Chas W. Freeman, Jr. America’s Continuing Misadventures in the Middle East,(Just Word Books, 2016) p.48.”

Again – no attribution to the original article which appeared in 1978 purporting to reveal verbatim a private conversation held 22 years previously where the person supposed to have said it died in 1973.

5. Get the drift? You have been scammed by people who are not revealing that the quote by Ben Gurion only first found the light of day 22 years after he allegedly made it and five years after his death when he cannot confirm or deny its veracity. Then they print only of part of that supposed quote – not the complete text - which gives it an entirely different meaning.

That is how Palestinian propaganda works from people like Roberts and Are who clearly don’t like Jews and Israel – and how people like you unwittingly perhaps swallow this rubbish without checking first.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to show how these propagandists work.

The garbage is all yours Geoff.
Posted by david singer, Thursday, 25 August 2016 4:02:36 PM
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"1.All demolitions are of unauthorized buildings and structures after having been so determined by the Israeli Courts.

2.The Jews right to reconstitute their national home in Palestine was unanimously approved by the League of Nations and preserved by the United Nations."
The Jewish homeland , although not an action of G-d Y--h in 1948, was a good thing . But sentence 1 is not the corollary of 2. The good of 1948 has become something like 1939 , legally .
Posted by nicknamenick, Thursday, 25 August 2016 4:22:37 PM
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David,
You can throw it anyway you like but the world is watching and witnesses the genocide you constantly deny.

Ttbh, Israel is not a democracy, it is a fascist state.

Rabid Zionists are you David, no ifs or buts there.

You are a people hater and the decline and failure of the US empire, guaranteed to occur within five years will see the demise of Israel as a State, I can't wait. Give the land back to the Arabs and go home to Europe, another failing empire, you make me sick.

Pathetic really
Posted by Geoff of Perth, Thursday, 25 August 2016 6:44:38 PM
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The palestinians will make peace with Israel when they love their children more than they hate Jews.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Thursday, 25 August 2016 8:30:00 PM
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#Geoff

I thought you would be incensed to learn you had become an innocent victim of Paul Roberts incomplete and misleading Ben Gurion quote which you had been duped into believing was true and accurate - when in fact it was allegedly made in a private conversation in 1956 and did not surface unti 1978 - five years after Ben Gurions's death.

Instead of condemning Roberts for making a fool out of you - you attack me and repeat and make further lmisleading and unsubstantiated claims against Israel and the Jewish people.

This leads me to conclude you are not a victim of these rabid Jew-haters but you are indeed part of the same cabal as Roberts and Are that deliberately are attempting to mislead and deceive the public because of their obsessive hatred of Jews.

You are of course perfectly entitled to stand side by side and be identified with these pathetic haters.

Stand exposed as the #Geoff with no clothes.

Not a pretty sight.
Posted by david singer, Friday, 26 August 2016 3:53:31 PM
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David
Could you explain how the omitted sentences change the previous sentences? Is the logic wrong in the main quote?
Posted by nicknamenick, Friday, 26 August 2016 4:05:07 PM
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#nicknamenick

I am not interested in discussing some remarks supposedly attributed verbatim to Ben Gurion which he allegedly made in a private conversation in 1956 - that were not made public until 1978 - five years after Ben Gurion died.

Perhaps you would do better to discuss the subject matter of my article - Abbas abandoning negotiations with Israel by threatening to prosecute Britain for having the temerity to have issued the Balfour Declaration in 1917.

The Balfour Declaration and its terms is not a matter of conjecture. Nor is the Mandate for Palestine that followed it in 1922 or article 80 of the UN Charter or the 1947 UN Partition Plan

All of these documents have been rejected by the Palestinian Arabs who continue to deny the right of the Jews to reconstitute their national home in what the international community recognised as the ancient historic and biblical homeland of the Jews. They can complain at what the international community decided till the cows come home - but where has such rejection over the last 100 years got them?

That Roberts, Are and Geoff are peeved and are doing everything underhanded they can to deny the Jews such rights legally vested in them by the League of Nations and the United Nations is disgraceful.
Posted by david singer, Friday, 26 August 2016 7:43:05 PM
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David states:

"All of these documents have been rejected by the Palestinian Arabs who continue to deny the right of the Jews to reconstitute their national home in what the international community recognised as the ancient historic and biblical homeland of the Jews. They can complain at what the international community decided till the cows come home - but where has such rejection over the last 100 years got them?

That Roberts, Are and Geoff are peeved and are doing everything underhanded they can to deny the Jews such rights legally vested in them by the League of Nations and the United Nations is disgraceful."

Well sorry, 'reconstitute' since when has anyone been able to do this? Talk about a fallacy, the mind boggles at what you will come up with next!

As to the 'legally vested by the...' Again, since when did these two organisations be given the right to allow one single group of racist, militant people the authority to create a new nation on land already occupied by others, including Arabs, Jews etc? This is a precedent unheard of, and look at the true result, ethnic cleansing and never ending violence in the surrounding middle eastern countries which now surround the ersatz 'nation' of Israel.

You can harp on as long as you like David, however, the unblinkered people of the world, including many non-Zionist Jews, see right through the propoganda, the neocon-US funded and backed financial and military support to a nation conducting genocide in Gaza and the unfettered clandestine military support which has been the primary reason for the destruction of Iraq, Syria and beyond.

The world is watching, can see it for what it really is, but unlike me, is too afraid of the ridiculously powerful 'Jewish Lobby', to lay the truth on the table. You are a straw man, an emperor with no clothes, pitiful really.
Posted by Geoff of Perth, Saturday, 27 August 2016 1:48:51 AM
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Interesting that David avoids my q about the logic of Ben Gurion alleged opinion.
Now to the logic of UN. If David heroically stands to defend the authority of legal declarations then how does he support expansion by Israel outside them? Are not Israel and rebel Arabs policies both a disgraceful rejection?
Posted by nicknamenick, Saturday, 27 August 2016 9:42:23 AM
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#Geoff the Jew hater

Your silence confirms you are not an innocent victim duped by Roberts and Are - but rather someone who deliberately spreads their malicious propaganda to deceive and mislead.

You now ask:
"Well sorry, 'reconstitute' since when has anyone been able to do this? Talk about a fallacy, the mind boggles at what you will come up with next!"

No fallacy Geoff. Well might your mind boggle,

My quote - unlike yours - is 100% accurate

The Jews gained the legal right to "reconstitute the Jewish National Home" in Palestine when all 51 members of the League of Nations unanimously voted for this to happen in 0.01% of the Ottoman Empire territory liberated after 400 years of Ottoman rule in 1917 - whilst Arab self determination was to occur in the remaining 99.99%.

Iran was - but the USA was not - a League member.

Great outcome for the Arabs.but not equitable enough however as they have now turned the MIddle East into killing fields slaughtering their own fellow Arabs and making millions homeless as they argue over who should rule the 99.99%. Your silence is deafening.

There was no people identified as "Palestinians" in 1922. The Arab residents were part of "the non-Jewish communities" in Palestine

The partition plan in 1947 called for the creation of a "Jewish" State and an "Arab" State. Still not good enough for the Arabs who rejected that proposal by invading Palestine with six Arab armies.

The Arabs could have created another Arab State in all of the West Bank and Gaza between 1948 and 1967 with the stroke of an Arab League pen but failed to do so..

"Palestinians" were only artificially created by false Arab propaganda in 1964 which you deliberately paper over as you seek to deny the Jews any rights at all in their 3000 years old ancient,biblical and internationally recognised homeland.

Dragging out the "ridiculously powerful "Jewish lobby" " red herring shows how low you have sunk.

Swallowing propaganda will only give you serious indigestion.

Try digesting facts for a change.

Can really work wonders.
Posted by david singer, Saturday, 27 August 2016 3:16:33 PM
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David
Aren't facts just wonderful? Israel at .01% is 1/10,000 of Ottoman empire. However Ottoman was 1.8 mill. sq km and Israel at 20,000 km is 1.1% or 1/90. Anyway a small Arab enclave of 200 km would be OK inside Israel next to the Temple? Or maybe just bring the borders in 1 km to show area means nothing? They say Israeli soldiers wept when they reached the Wall 1967.
Encyclopedia Brittanica 2007. The Arabs of Palestine began widely using the term Palestinian starting in the pre-World War I period to indicate the nationalist concept of a Palestinian people.( B Lewis 1999). Semites and Anti-Semites , An Inquiry into Conflict and Prejudice .p 169.

Palestine was the British term and the people were P-.
Posted by nicknamenick, Saturday, 27 August 2016 7:23:52 PM
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#nicknamenick

Could you please post verbatim the quote you rely on from Lewis's 1999 work and his sources that support his claim that "the Arabs of Palestine began widely using the term Palestinian starting in the pre-World War I period to indicate the nationalist concept of a Palestinian people"

Lewis's claim stands in stark contrast to the following:

"The three main political organizations in Palestine-the Arab Club, the Literary Club, and the Muslim-Christian Association (the lack of mention of Palestine in their names is revealing) -- all worked for union with Syria. The first two went farthest, calling outright for rule by Prince Faysal. Amin al-Husayni was president of the Arab Club; the extremism which later made him notorious as the leader of Palestinian separatism (and an ally of Hitler) already showed itself in 1920, when he instigated riots for union with Syria. A member of the Arab Club, Kamil al-Budayri, co-edited from September 1919 the newspaper Suriya al-Janubiya ("Southern Syria") which advocated Palestine's incorporation into Greater Syria.

Even the Muslim-Christian Association, an organization of traditional leaders-men who expected to rule if Palestine became independent-demanded incorporation in Greater Syria. Its president insisted that "Palestine or Southern Syria-an integral part of the one and indivisible Syria-must not in any case or for any pretext be detached." The Muslim-Christian Association held a Congress in early 1919 to draw up demands for the Paris Peace Conference. It declared that Palestine, a "part of Arab Syria," is permanently connected to Syria through "national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic, and geographical bonds," and resolved that "Southern Syria or Palestine should not be separated from the independent Arab Syrian government." Musa Kazim al-Husayni, Head of the Jerusalem Town Council (in effect, mayor) told a Zionist interlocutor in October 1919: "We demand no separation from Syria." The slogan heard everywhere in 1918-19 was "Unity, Unity, From the Taurus [Mountains in Turkey] to Rafah [in Gaza], Unity, Unity."
http://www.danielpipes.org/174/palestine-for-the-syrians

Lewis is also contradicted by the League of Nations which in the 1922 Mandate for Palestine never mentioned the "Palestinians" but only the "existing non-Jewish communities"
Posted by david singer, Saturday, 27 August 2016 10:13:30 PM
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No I don't have the book. But 1922 Mandate for Palestine means the people were ...? ( Ukraine people are..?)
Pakistanians have a land but not a Paki Homeland promised by Allah who sends the Pak Army to fulfil prophecy.
Posted by nicknamenick, Sunday, 28 August 2016 7:33:55 AM
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#nicknamenick

So you don't have Lewis's book.

What then was the source you used to make the following comment:

"The Arabs of Palestine began widely using the term Palestinian starting in the pre-World War I period to indicate the nationalist concept of a Palestinian people.( B Lewis 1999). Semites and Anti-Semites , An Inquiry into Conflict and Prejudice .p 169."

The link to where you got this statement from would be appreciated.
Posted by david singer, Monday, 29 August 2016 7:56:53 AM
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#nicknamenick

I am still waiting for you to post the link to the following statement made by you:

"The Arabs of Palestine began widely using the term Palestinian starting in the pre-World War I period to indicate the nationalist concept of a Palestinian people.( B Lewis 1999). Semites and Anti-Semites , An Inquiry into Conflict and Prejudice .p 169."

The reference by me to the Daniel Pipes statement certainly does not agree with the one you attributed to Lewis - indeed it is directly the opposite.

The sooner you post the link to the Lewis statement - the sooner we can try and clear up the apparent inconsistency between Lewis and Pipes.

It seems you may not be able to locate the source for the Lewis quote as I asked you to supply the link to me more than twenty four hours ago. If that is the case please confirm as soon as possible.

The issue is far too important to be left in limbo.
Posted by david singer, Tuesday, 30 August 2016 8:23:54 AM
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steady on David,
google it and:
Search Results
The term “Palestinian” - All about Oscar
kids.britannica.com/oscar/article-45075
The Arabs of Palestine began widely using the term Palestinian starting in the pre-World War I period to indicate the nationalist concept of a Palestinian people.
Historic Palestine, Israel, and the Emerging Palestinian Autonomous ...
https://books.google.com.au/books?isbn=1615303154
Laura Etheredge - 2011 - ‎Juvenile Nonfiction
The Arabs of Palestine began widely using the term “Palestinian” starting in the pre-World War I period to indicate the nationalist concept of a Palestinian people.
Posted by nicknamenick, Tuesday, 30 August 2016 9:28:10 AM
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#nicknamenick

I am a little confused.

You originally posted this statement:

"Encyclopedia Brittanica 2007. The Arabs of Palestine began widely using the term Palestinian starting in the pre-World War I period to indicate the nationalist concept of a Palestinian people.( B Lewis 1999). Semites and Anti-Semites , An Inquiry into Conflict and Prejudice .p 169."

You have now posted the following in response for my request for the link to this statement:

"Search Results
The term “Palestinian” - All about Oscar
kids.britannica.com/oscar/article-45075
The Arabs of Palestine began widely using the term Palestinian starting in the pre-World War I period to indicate the nationalist concept of a Palestinian people.
Historic Palestine, Israel, and the Emerging Palestinian Autonomous ...
https://books.google.com.au/books?isbn=1615303154
Laura Etheredge - 2011 - ‎Juvenile Nonfiction
The Arabs of Palestine began widely using the term “Palestinian” starting in the pre-World War I period to indicate the nationalist concept of a Palestinian people."

What is puzzling is that there appears to be no reference in either of the above links to Lewis's book quoted by you - which I thought was the source on which this wide sweeping and unsubstaniated statement was based.

Am I mistaken?

If so - Why did you mention the Lewis Book in your first post with a specific reference to page 169 if it is of no relevance - as your latest post omitting any refence to the Lewis book as the source now seems to imply?

Is there any link to substantiate the identical statement made in both kids.brittanica and the Laura Ethredge book that "The Arabs of Palestine began widely using the term Palestinian starting in the pre-World War I period to indicate the nationalist concept of a Palestinian people."

This statement needs to be backed up by some evidence to substantiate it - as was Pipe's statement which is totally at odds with the above statement when stating -"The three main political organizations in Palestine-the Arab Club, the Literary Club, and the Muslim-Christian Association (the lack of mention of Palestine in their names is revealing) -- all worked for union with Syria. .
Posted by david singer, Tuesday, 30 August 2016 2:27:09 PM
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In Wikipedia Palestinians:
The 1st para has -
"Palestinian" was used to refer to the nationalist concept of a Palestinian people by the local population of Christians and Muslims in a limited way until World War I.[35][36]
The refs 35, 36 have the info quoted.
In Etymology section of wikipedia Palestinians , the term is used in para 3 and 4 for early 1900s.
Posted by nicknamenick, Tuesday, 30 August 2016 4:13:58 PM
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#nicknamenick

Thanks for the further infomation.

Footnote 36 indeed refers to the Lewis Book but Lewis does not actually support the following claim:

"Palestinian" was used to refer to the nationalist concept of a Palestinian people by the local population of Christians and Muslims in a limited way until World War 1"

Lewis indeed supports Pipes as the following extract taken from the link below makes clear:

"Bernard Lewis argues it was not as a Palestinian nation that the Palestinian Arabs of the Ottoman empire objected to Zionists, since the very concept of such a nation was unknown to the Arabs of the area at the time and did not come into being until later. Even the concept of Arab nationalism in the Arab provinces of the Ottoman Empire, "had not reached significant proportions before the outbreak of World War I."[17]

Daniel Pipes asserts that "No 'Palestinian Arab people' existed at the start of 1920 but by December it took shape in a form recognizably similar to today's." Pipes argues that with the carving of the British Mandate of Palestine out of Greater Syria the Arabs of the new Mandate were forced to make the best they could of their situation, and therefore began to define themselves as Palestinian.[18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_nationalism

The fact that the three main political organizations in Palestine-the Arab Club, the Literary Club, and the Muslim-Christian Association - all worked for union with Syria - makes the two statements you have referred to - that are not substantiated in any way - totally without foundation.
Posted by david singer, Tuesday, 30 August 2016 5:56:56 PM
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The Etymology referred to has:
The Arabic newspaper Falasteen (est. 1911), published in Jaffa by Issa and Yusef al-Issa, addressed its readers as "Palestinians".[74].[75] During the Mandatory Palestine period, the term "Palestinian" was used to refer to all people residing there, regardless of religion or ethnicity, and those granted citizenship by the British Mandatory authorities were granted "Palestinian citizenship".[76] Other examples include the use of the term Palestine Regiment to refer to the Jewish Infantry Brigade Group of the British Army during World War II, and the term "Palestinian Talmud", which is an alternative name of the Jerusalem Talmud, used mainly in academic sources.
-
But does it matter that much ? If Arabs called themselves Abrahamic Chosen Grapevine would that alter the Jewish case?
Posted by nicknamenick, Tuesday, 30 August 2016 6:36:27 PM
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#nicknamenick

It does matter - because you originally raised the issue in a one line throwaway sentence that needed to be clarified by you and either substantiated or rebutted.

After all this toing and froing your Wikipedia statements have now turned out to be nothing but a beat up without any real foundation or substance.

Lewis says exactly the opposite to what the footnote is supposedly said to have substantiated and Pipes supports Lewis.

Besides Lewis and Pipes you can also add all 51 members of the League of Nations who correctly referred to the Moslem and Christian residents of Palestine as "the existing non-Jewish communities" - not the "Palestinians".

In 1919 Palestine's Arab residents - Moslem and Christian - were seeking union with Syria - not independence in Palestine.

If you don't agree - tell me why.
Posted by david singer, Tuesday, 30 August 2016 11:43:13 PM
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My preceding post quotes comments that it was used in a limited way if not a general concept.
But again, what does my opinion or Arab opinion matter for the Jewish case?
Posted by nicknamenick, Wednesday, 31 August 2016 6:15:26 AM
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#nicknamenick

Your belated comment that your "preceding post quotes comments that it was used in a limited way if not a general concept." is a far cry from your original comment that sparked our exchange:
"The Arabs of Palestine began widely using the term Palestinian starting in the pre-World War I period to indicate the nationalist concept of a Palestinian people."

Wikipedia is notorious for providing incorrect information and referring to sources that do not support Wikipedia's claims.

In this instance the source referred to - Bernard Lewis - states exactly the opposite to what he is supposed to be substantiating. This only becomes clear when one goes to the source himself - Bernard Lewis

As you might know - Wikipedia is the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit.

What you quoted was probably the work of someone trying to bolster the Arab narrative in a deceptive and misleading way.

You apparently have relied on Wiki in good faith and appear to have been an innocent victim in this case.

What does this matter for the Jewish case? It exposes the falsity of the Arab narrative and reinforces the credibility of the Jewish narrative.

#Geoff of Perth is one of those who deliberately fabricates the Arab narrative and tries to deceive readers concerning the Jewish narrative - as I have shown in relation to the alleged Ben Gurion "quote" used by #Geoff.

Exposing such propaganda is a long struggle as our exchange has shown and also my exchange with #Geoff.

Hopefully these two examples will give you a better understanding of the Arab-Jewish conflict that has raged unresolved for 100 years.
Posted by david singer, Wednesday, 31 August 2016 10:28:38 AM
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If Palestinians began a wider national concept in 1920 and Jews began at around the same time how are they different ? What does the 1920 narrative matter today ? Philistines 1200 BCE and Jews 1400BCE go back to the same era.
There could be 3 motives for Israel:
1. Sentimental memory of David . weak case
2. Protection from persecution and pogrom. possible case.
3. Divine action by G-d. no case.
Posted by nicknamenick, Wednesday, 31 August 2016 11:35:32 AM
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I don't know why you guys waste your time with David.
Better off putting your comments on forums that others actually read.
No one shares his articles anyway, he's irrelevant.
Why would they?
He posts so much biased garbage and then acts like a complete douchebag accusing others of pretty much doing the same thing and using trendy PC terms to denigrate like he thinks he's smart.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/mapstellstory.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiHdpAVIHgo
Posted by Armchair Critic, Wednesday, 31 August 2016 11:56:46 AM
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It's all fun.

"Bernard Lewis argues it was not as a Palestinian nation that the Palestinian Arabs of the Ottoman empire.."
Well there you have it , they used the dreaded P- word before WWI.
They read the newspaper for P- .

So David , what is your plan? Do we join them all to Syria and have Syrian artillery on the hillsides east of Jerusalem?
Posted by nicknamenick, Wednesday, 31 August 2016 4:35:18 PM
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References to the Balfour Declaration and documents arising from it are rubbish – they refer to declarations by now defunct colonial powers assuming a lordly right to allocate territory that is not theirs.

Long after the demise of those colonial powers Article 1 was adopted in the UN Charter, recognising the right of peoples to self-determination. The inhabitants of Palestine are a people defined by their place of abode including that from which they were forcibly expelled by foreigners in the Nakba.

Jews are not a nation or a people nor are they chosen by God any more than anybody else – even Celts.

Jews are not needing a homeland, they have dozens of homelands. Australia is one of them. In all these homelands Jews have exactly the same rights, status and nationality as everyone else.

This is not the case in racist Israel, which is an enclave in Palestine forcibly seized from its people and falsely claimed as a homeland specifically for ethnic Jews including immigrants from all oiver the world.

All agreements of defunct colonial powers are validated only by force applied frojm the USA which has allowed itself (FOR NOW) to be cowed by a racist lobby with strong connections to the wealth of the robber banks.

In self-defence the 99% of the people of the USA are becoming obliged to re-establish FDR's New Deal which was unravelled by successive administrations subservient to and owned by the major banks delivering catastrophic impoverishment to millions of Americans.

Americans are a tough-minded lot and are already showing they won't cop this radical inequality indefinitely.

Try reading “Listen, Liberal” by long-time US insider Thomas Frank for a glimpse of the disaster opening up under the feet of the banksters whose dominance has been the mainstay of governments which have been funding Israel.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Wednesday, 31 August 2016 9:30:58 PM
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Jewish expansion has cost it much goodwill and the US backing for almost anything Israel does even under Obama (" Guantanamo Bay will close") is another cost. Expansions into Ukraine and South China sea don't look so illegal . Beijing has Tianmen "Gate of Heaven" much like Jerusalem.
Posted by nicknamenick, Wednesday, 31 August 2016 9:54:14 PM
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#nicknamenick

Maybe you are not the innocent dupe I thought you were. You certainly appear to have an agenda.

Why does the 1920 narrative matter today?

Because the Arabs are trying to make out a case based on the past that simply is fictitious as I have pointed out to you.

Philistines are not Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs and no one else is included in this racist and apartheid definition according to the 1964 PLO Charter. Going back to the Philistines is one big Arab propaganda load of rubbish.

The Arabs invaded and occupied Palestine in the seventh century AD.

Enough of this nonsense #nicknamenick. You have exposed yourself as a soulmate of the Jew- hater #Geoff.

Pity. I thought you were better than that.

#armchair critic

Another Jew-hater returning to the stage.

The links posted by you contain a load of false and deceptive Arab propaganda

The maps displayed there have been found to be inaccurate by mc Graw Hill publishing who recently trashed a textbook containing them.

The rest of the material is a litany of lies and deception.

That dopes like you allow yourself to be duped comes down to one thing - your hatred of Jews blinds you to the truth.

That you choose to do so anonymously shows what a coward you are - along with people like # Geoff and # nickname.

Get it? - there is a pattern emerging here that is quite odious.

#nicknamenick

There is a great difference between "Palestinian Arabs" and "Palestinians". Pity you still can't get your head around this fundamental distinction. Or are you intentionally acting stupid?

#Emperor Julian

Another Jew-hater returns to join his mates.

Can't acknowledge what happened in Palestine was the result of 51 nations comprising the League of Nations unanimously deciding that the Jewish National Home should be reconstituted in 22% of Palestine today called Israel , Judea and Samaria (West Bank) and Gaza - whilst the Arabs would have self-determination in the remaining 78% today called Jordan
Posted by david singer, Thursday, 1 September 2016 8:55:42 AM
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The racial supremacist states:
"Can't acknowledge what happened in Palestine was the result of 51 nations comprising the League of Nations unanimously deciding that the Jewish National Home should be reconstituted in 22% of Palestine today called Israel , Judea and Samaria (West Bank) and Gaza - whilst the Arabs would have self-determination in the remaining 78% today called Jordan"
-
Unanimous? Did the Palestinian delegate really vote that way?
No Palestinian delegate?
Thought not.
Do you have a link to what nations were represented in that unanimous vote of the colonial powers and their colonies? Especially who represented Palestine and who represented Jordan?

Jew hater? Just an insulting term from a supremacist for anyone who doesn't accept supremacist claims no matter how often they're regurgitated. And who doesn't accept that Australia is not a homeland for all its citizens even any who, like Mr Singer, reject it.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Thursday, 1 September 2016 11:56:08 AM
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#Emperor

The 51 member countries of the League of Nations were Albania, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, British India, Bulgaria, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, El Salvador, Estonia, Finland, France, Greece, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Italy, Japan, Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes, Latvia, Liberia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Persia, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Republic of China, Romania, Siam, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Union of South Africa, United Kingdom, Uruguay, and Venezuela.
Posted by david singer, Thursday, 1 September 2016 10:00:58 PM
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Thanks for the list Mr Singer. I read it carefully and couldn't find Palestine anywhere. Or even Jordan. In fact I couldn't find a single country that had the slightest relevance to the territory they presumed to give away. Territory that had had people living in it for many centuries. They weren't giving away terra nullius. Their proclamations and legal documents are not worth tuppence, nor are any claims based on them, including claims that racial-supremacist Israel, an enclave that doesn't even have a constitution, has the slightest right to be there at all. Its continued existence is not based on legitimacy but only on force and violence which can be sustained only so long as it suits the geostrategic interests of the only empire remaining on the planet.

Time will come, in the foreseeable future, when Israel will have to try to negotiate a modus vivendi with its neighbours to be allowed to remain in the region in any shape or form.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Thursday, 1 September 2016 11:29:07 PM
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Hey ttbn,
"Action against these three evil entities is necessary to give peace and security to Israel."
Yeah, it does need to take action, starting with paying back the 1.2bln dollars worth of oil it stole from Iran.

David,
You need to put some new strings on your violin, its wearing out.
Calling me a Jew-hater doesn't make it so, and I also completely disagree with your opinion of my linked sites content.

I criticise plenty of things including opinions from my fellow Aussies on this forum.
It doesn't mean I hate them.
Makes about as much sense as saying the reason Jews always remind us of the Holocaust is because of their undying hatred of Germans..

Grow up.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Thursday, 1 September 2016 11:51:09 PM
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David
You mention Britain which is a Saxon word adopted from the previous Celtic Britons. Southern Syrians before WWI were Palestinians using the Philistine regional name, that's not an agenda that's evidence supported by your own use. Jewish DNA in Israel is from everyone except Innuit, maybe them too. Stern gang bombed the Britons and received a state which is more like crime than Law.
The narrative on East Jerusalem is interesting. It's not annexed but is indivisible from Israel. Rabbinic Talmud produces hair-splitting like this topic.
Posted by nicknamenick, Friday, 2 September 2016 8:21:35 AM
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#nickname, #Emperor, #Armchair,

Your latest missives confirm the following common features that unite you:

1. You all hide under the cover of anonymity

2. You all peddle masses of false and misleading racist and apartheid Arab propaganda

3. You all have an extreme hatred of Jews

4. You all call for an end to the Jewish State of Israel, the removal of its 6,500,000 Jews and its replacement with a 22nd Arab State to join the other 57 Islamic States world wide.

Please set me straight if I have misjudged any of you.
Posted by david singer, Friday, 2 September 2016 10:56:45 AM
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Mr Singer has written of myself and two others:

Your latest missives confirm the following common features that unite you:

1. You all hide under the cover of anonymity

2. You all peddle masses of false and misleading racist and apartheid Arab propaganda

3. You all have an extreme hatred of Jews

4. You all call for an end to the Jewish State of Israel, the removal of its 6,500,000 Jews and its replacement with a 22nd Arab State to join the other 57 Islamic States world wide.

I can answer for myself only and am glad to although what Mr Singer has written about the other two is also bollocks.

1. My use of a pen name is due to the pen name being transferred with my enrolment with OLO after using it with a Disqus newsgroup (abandoned long ago). My name is Dion Giles but the name is irrelevant.

2. I peddle no racist propaganda and blatant racists like Mr Singer would be unable to identify any.

3. I have never expressed "extreme hatred" for Jews or even the mildest discomfort with Jews, and Mr Singer would be unable to point to any.

4. I do not suggest removing 6.5 million people from where they live, merely the dismantling of the racist state, as the racist Union of South Africa was dismantled. Our business as non-residents of Palestine is to work for the total rejection of all calls by Fifth Columnists to tie our own nation to a bunch of racists, either as military defenders or as financial contributors or as political sympathisers.

Mr Singer's frequent cry of antisemitism is merely his failure to cope with rejection of any exceptionalist claims (including his) on behalf of any group of people linked by any genetic characteristics, especially when such claims are not only exceptionalist but also supremacist.

Such claims are the very essence of racism and this is what makes them objectionable.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Friday, 2 September 2016 12:37:41 PM
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#Emperor

In reply to your comments:

1. Posting as Dion Giles will be welcomed. Remaining anonymous is the act of a coward.

2. You support both leaderships of the Palestinian Arabs - Hamas and the PLO - who both call for a State for the Palestinian Arabs in all of former Palestine free of all its Jewish residents. That is racist and smacks of apartheid.

3."Jews are not a nation or a people nor are they chosen by God any more than anybody else – even Celts.

Jews are not needing a homeland, they have dozens of homelands. Australia is one of them. In all these homelands Jews have exactly the same rights, status and nationality as everyone else."

The Arab propaganda you produce is deceptive and misleading as I have substantiated in many exchanges with you.

Sounds like extreme hatred of Jews to me.

4. Hamas and the PLO have no intention of doing your bidding. Won't help for you to belatedly express your regrets were these murderers ever to succeed in wiping out a Jewish State that the world has recognised has every right to exist and be a member of the family of nations.

Express your condemnation of both Hamas and the PLO and state affirmatively there can be no peace until these two evil regimes and their jew-hating Charters are replaced by a leadership prepared to recognise the existence of the Jewish State.
Posted by david singer, Friday, 2 September 2016 1:18:01 PM
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This has been a command of the holy Jewish scribe.
Disagreement is forbidden.
We have ways of stoning you.
Posted by nicknamenick, Friday, 2 September 2016 2:49:44 PM
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Mr Singer claims:

"You support both leaderships of the Palestinian Arabs - Hamas and the PLO - who both call for a State for the Palestinian Arabs in all of former Palestine free of all its Jewish residents."

Correction: It's not about this or that "leadership" it's about justice (a concept which I know Mr Singer finds elusive). I am surprised if either or any other Arab leadership wants Palestine "free of all its Jewish residents" as it never was before the Nakba and this was never a problem. If any group wants a Palestine without Jewish residents then a reference to its statement of this would be helpful.

I reiterate something Mr Singer calls extreme hatred of Jews: "Jews are not needing a homeland, they have dozens of homelands. Australia is one of them. In all these homelands Jews have exactly the same rights, status and nationality as everyone else." Have a look at Mr Singer's list of League of Nations members. Many of them are homelands for Jews who live in them on equal terms with everyone else. There is no genetic category on earth which merits supremacy on racial grounds and to claim otherwise is blatant racism even when disguised as some sort of victimhood. That is why enemies of racism everywhere will reject supremacist claimants and support all who seek to get rid of the only racial-supremacist state on earth.

Just to pinpoint some dishonest verbal sleight-of-hand: Charters of two Resistance groups are claimed by Mr Singer to exclude Jewish residents in Palestine but Mr Singer goes on to say they ought to recognise the Jewish State. Jewish residents, Jewish State. Mr Singer deceitfully conflates the two. Let's see the actual wording of the Charters and what if anything needs to be changed to make them just.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Friday, 2 September 2016 4:05:15 PM
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#Emperor

You state:

"I am surprised if either or any other Arab leadership wants Palestine "free of all its Jewish residents" as it never was before the Nakba and this was never a problem. If any group wants a Palestine without Jewish residents then a reference to its statement of this would be helpful."

You are mistaken yet again.

Arab riots against Jews in 1920, the slaughter of the Jewish community in Hebron in 1929, and three years of Arab rioting between 1936 to 1939 attest to the hatred of Jews by the Arabs.

The Arabs have never been happy to accept 78% of Palestine. They wanted the lot and still do - and people like you support their claim.

As for Hamas and the PLO making that quite clear read the PLO Charter and the Hamas Charter. They are as racist and apartheid in their demands as previous leaderships.

Both make it clear that Palestine is part of the Arab nation and non-negotiable.

You have been suckered and well and truly scammed.
Posted by david singer, Saturday, 3 September 2016 12:36:47 PM
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Mr Singer writes: "Both [Hamas and PLO] make it clear that Palestine is part of the Arab nation and non-negotiable."

Actually Hamas' so-called "Charter" is a wordy exposition of Moslem theocracy and doesn't seem to contain a requirement that no Jew be allowed to live in Palestine. The PLO Charter ducks and weaves between different versions but I couldn't find a statement that said no Jew should be allowed to live in Palestine.

Could it be that this is just another lie peddled by the global Zionist propaganda machine to protect not Jewish lives, not Jews' rights of residence, but the "Jewish state" which embodies the Zionist ideology of Jewish exceptionalism and Jewish supremacism - an ideology which is racism on steroids?
Posted by EmperorJulian, Saturday, 3 September 2016 1:45:35 PM
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#Emperor

You state:

"Actually Hamas' so-called "Charter" is a wordy exposition of Moslem theocracy and doesn't seem to contain a requirement that no Jew be allowed to live in Palestine. The PLO Charter ducks and weaves between different versions but I couldn't find a statement that said no Jew should be allowed to live in Palestine."

Try understanding these articles from the Hamas and PLO Charters:

Hamas:

Article 11:
"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day..."

Article 14:
"The question of the liberation of Palestine is bound to three circles: the Palestinian circle, the Arab circle and the Islamic circle. Each of these circles has its role in the struggle against Zionism. Each has its duties, and it is a horrible mistake and a sign of deep ignorance to overlook any of these circles. Palestine is an Islamic land which has the first of the two kiblahs (direction to which Moslems turn in praying), the third of the holy (Islamic) sanctuaries, and the point of departure for Mohamed's midnight journey to the seven heavens (i.e. Jerusalem)."

The PLO:

Article 1:
"Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation."

Article 2:
"Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit."

Racist and apartheid - no room for Jews in former Palestine

You clearly lack the capacity to think and to understand what you read - blinkered by your Jew- hatred for sure.
Posted by david singer, Saturday, 3 September 2016 10:28:26 PM
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Still no statement that Palestine must be free of Jews.

Of COURSE Palestine is an Arab homeland.

That doesn't say nobody but an Arab (i.e. no Jew) may live there.

England is an English homeland but no restriction on Jews living in it. Basically they are English and their genetic ancestors have no implications in English law. England is their homeland,

Mr Singer's lie that the Arab Charters exclude Jews living in Palestine is his way of describing Resistance to a racist Jewish State. Palestine is a Palestinian homeland and anyone accepted to live in it is a Palestinian just as anyone accepted to belong in England is English.

His reference to Jew hatred is no more than an endlessly repeated insult to anyone who rejects the racist Jewish State or its expansionist claims, and is merely a way of ducking an argument he can't sustain, that a racist state is any more acceptable in Palestine than it was in South Africa or it would be if part of Australia was forcibly sequestered for a race-based state.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Sunday, 4 September 2016 1:09:26 AM
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The narrative of 12 tribe Israel is briefer than the period since the Temple has been unused ( 1946 years ). For Judaic Jews there could be a question about G-d's narrative. The 20% Judaic believers in Israel supported the Arabs against Zionists and wait for Messiah to resurrect them in the correct Israel . The 50% secular / atheist / genetic Israelis don't support the divine Temple basis for their country. Others don't know / don't care . The rather insane praying at a non-Temple in disreputable ruins matches the non-Zionist religious and non-religious Zionist citizens of a country which lost its tribal priesthood and sacrificial system in Caesar's times.
G-d's view in Shemohth and Devarim is " am-q'sheh-oref ".
Posted by nicknamenick, Sunday, 4 September 2016 8:05:07 AM
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#Emperor

Isn't it time you started posting as Dion Giles? Or are you ashamed of your "real" name?

You are becoming quite perverse.

You now state:

"Mr Singer's lie that the Arab Charters exclude Jews living in Palestine is his way of describing Resistance to a racist Jewish State. Palestine is a Palestinian homeland and anyone accepted to live in it is a Palestinian just as anyone accepted to belong in England is English."

Do you reckon Jews will be welcome with outstretched PLO or Hamas arms after reading their following rabid racist and apartheid statements:

Article 5 PLO charter:

"The Palestinians are those Arab nationals who, until 1947, normally resided in Palestine regardless of whether they were evicted from it or have stayed there. Anyone born, after that date, of a Palestinian father - whether inside Palestine or outside it - is also a Palestinian.

Article 6 PLO charter

"The Jews who had normally resided in Palestine until the beginning of the Zionist invasion will be considered Palestinians."

Hamas Charter

"This Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), clarifies its picture, reveals its identity, outlines its stand, explains its aims, speaks about its hopes, and calls for its support, adoption and joining its ranks. Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised."

Abbas:

"In a final resolution, we would not see the presence of a single Israeli - civilian or soldier - on our lands," Abbas said in a briefing to mostly Egyptian journalists."
http://m.jpost.com/Middle-East/Abbas-wants-not-a-single-Israeli-in-future-Palestinian-state-321470#article=0RDBDMThCNEI2QjIxNTBCMEUyODY4NDk1M0NEODlBRjc=

Get it Herr Emperor Giles

Final resolution = final solution - which would obviously give an outed Jew- hater like you great pleasure.

Six Arab States tried that in 1948 and failed.

They have all descended into hell since then.
Posted by david singer, Tuesday, 6 September 2016 2:28:10 PM
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#nicknamenick

The more you post the more you lose your innocence and out yourself as a Jew-hater closely aligned with #Emperor and his ilk.

The League of Nations made its international consensus absolutely clear when stating:

"Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and

Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country; "

Try and get over your hatred and go with the flow of history - not against it.

The League of Nations decisions resulted in the creation of 21 Arab States - one of which was created in 78% of Palestine today called Jordan.

The. Jews got 22% of Palestine - one third the size of Tasmania- within which to establish their State.

The verdict came in from the League of Nations.

The Jews accepted the decision. The Arabs didn't and still don't and you apparently don't either.

Accepting that verdict would have made life far more pleasant for all concerned.

So the conflict is set to continue as the Arabs find their 21 States insufficient for their nation.

So be it...
Posted by david singer, Tuesday, 6 September 2016 3:06:24 PM
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David
Are you Islamic? You are not improving the PR. I'm neither innocent, an agenda or hater, I stand for truth justice and liberty, statistics and honour.
There are illegal settlements not being liquidated by Philistine Arab extra-terrestial terror . There is illegal expansion in East Jerusalem which cancels out your claims for British Law. Ragheads who leave the city can't return. There are 50% Israelis who reject the religious basis for which the homeland claims G-d's Mandate .
Are you innocent , have an agenda or a hater? What will Messiah do to the non-Israel Army donkey traders?
Posted by nicknamenick, Tuesday, 6 September 2016 4:20:57 PM
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None of what Mr Singer has posted here means that the Resistance would exclude Jews (that is, people defined as Jews on the basis of their genetic ancestry) from living in and being part of Palestine. However that would not stop them expelling anyone who is holding land gained by a crime. It happens that the Zionists' wartime predecessors – the Nazi invaders of Poland – have demonstrated precisely what that means.

When German jackals imposed on Poland a land grab closely resembling the Nakba in Palestine and the subsequent expansion, Polish land was transferred at gunpoint to German settlers who became the new “owners”. After the liberation of Poland the Poles rightly threw them out. Not because they were Germans but because they were criminals. And Poland was restored as the land of the Poles. I don't suppose Poland's immigration laws would exclude non-criminal Germans.

The same might well be part of the restoration of Palestine. And since the authority to steal Palestinians' land has been allocated on purely racist grounds (meaning they are Jews) then there might well be what could be bewailed in advance by racists as excluding Jews although their expulsion would be because they were criminals, not because they were Jews.

Hamas adds religious supremacism to their rightful role as a national resistance to theft of their land. I'd support the national resistance but oppose and detest the theocracy. I hope the Palestinians will put paid to the theocracy as the Egyptians put paid to the Moslem Brotherhood after liberation from the Mubarek dictatorship even though the Moslem Brotherhood was an important participant in the liberation from Mubarek.

As for my pen-name, no I won't go through the rigmarole of changing it in accord with Mr Singer's sneers, as Graham told me long ago that it would mean changing my email address which would lead to colossal inconvenience. Focus on the facts and arguments, not the name of the source.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Tuesday, 6 September 2016 5:00:40 PM
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#emperor

You state:

"As for my pen-name, no I won't go through the rigmarole of changing it in accord with Mr Singer's sneers, as Graham told me long ago that it would mean changing my email address which would lead to colossal inconvenience. Focus on the facts and arguments, not the name of the source."

You pathetic bleating may rather have had something to do with wanting to gloss over your vitriolic hatred of Jews with this hate-filled contribution:

"Actually the world didn't ignore the heroes of the Warsaw Ghetto. Years of devastating total war on the vermin who murdered the Jews in the same result in much shorter order. The Gazans don't have the firepower to do this and must continue to work at undermining the weapon of misplaced world sympathy that underwrites the military power of the murderers, and do it in smart ways to connect with the human aspirations of decent people. That's how the Boers were brought to heel in South Africa. The Zionists can be defeated by building the revulsion of the world community, including the Jews, against the racist excrescence of overlord Israel. Rocket attacks into Israel are unlikely to do it."
http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/289-134/25102-wiping-another-country-off-the-map-israel-does-it-to-palestine

With such views - any rational discussion with the likes of Jew-haters like you is a total waste of time.

I will conclude with some positive developments from the "racist excrescence of overlord Israel"

1 Leukaemia’s days are numbered thanks to pipeline treatments such as Astarabine from Israel’s BioSight.and BL-8040 from Israel’s Bioline Rx.

2. Israel’s Gamida Cell reported good results from US trials of its NiCord blood cancer treatment.

3. Weizmann Institute’s groundbreaking prostate cancer treatment has now been approved by Israel’s Ministry of Health and is being administered to patients at Beilinson Hospital
http://verygoodnewsisrael.blogspot.com.au

Any further comments from you and other Jew-haters will only be replied to in future with more similar news from Israel - the Jewish state you cannot abide existing among 21 Arab States.

Perhaps you can respond with some similar good news of their achievements.
Posted by david singer, Tuesday, 6 September 2016 9:59:00 PM
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Just for curiosity, where is the "Jew hatred" in Mr Singer's quotation from Reader Supported News? Spell it out Mr Singer, make a rational case. Mine is that Palestine from 1948 is Poland from 1939.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Wednesday, 7 September 2016 1:45:16 AM
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#Emperor

Haven't you been able to find any positive news from those 21 Arab States yet?

Pity.

Here are another three from Israel.

· An Israeli startup uses Artificial Intelligence to increase crop yields.
· Israel is first to produce a robot that can crawl, climb and swim.
· A 2000-year-old synagogue has been unearthed in the Galilee - whilst Jew haters like you deny there were ever any Jews in the Galilee.

Pretty impressive - don't you agree?

Can't wait to see you post something positive from those who want to wipe Israel off the face of the map.
Posted by david singer, Wednesday, 7 September 2016 3:49:14 PM
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#Emperor

It is taking you a long time to come up with some positive Arab news.

Here are a few more positive news items from Israel - the Jewish State you want to see disappear and be replaced by a 22nd Arab State.

1. Israel’s POP Medical has obtained US FDA approval for the marketing of its medical device for treatment of pelvic floor prolapse. 20% of the women in the world suffer from this condition at any given moment, and 30% at some time in their lives.

2. 25% of pregnant women may suffer from Obstructive Sleep Apnea (OSA) but receive no treatment. Now researchers from Israel and the USA recommend a new diagnosis, ‘‘Gestational Sleep Apnea” (GSA) to properly describe, diagnose and treat OSA in pregnant women.

3. Israel is one of the top five world high-tech powers thanks to billion-dollar investments by Apple, USA, China, Russia and India. GDP has doubled since 2006, FX reserves are over $90 billion, unemployment is falling.

At least be generous in acknowledging Israel achieving these amazing feats in the face of Jew-haters like you calling for Israel's elimination

The score is Israel 9 Arab States 0.

Start scoring some goals.
Posted by david singer, Friday, 9 September 2016 9:36:32 AM
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Mr Singer continues to belittle Jewish researchers by ascribing their achievements to the racist enclave in which they work, revealing in himself what comes very close to Jew-hatred. This is very much like saying Apartheid South Africa gave the world its first heart transplant because that's where Christian Barnard did the operation. Racist Israel and Apartheid South Africa have a lot in common, which is why Mr Singer's apologia for Israel have the same stridency as the Boer apologia for Apartheid. (Fortunately their racist monstrosity of a state has been wiped off the face of the earth – without any of the mass killing or even expulsion that the Boer apologists claimed would happen if their regime was dismantled as in time its racist ally Israel will be).

Regarding achievements of Israelis I can give more, though not being a Jew-hater like Mr Singer I respect them as human beings with actual names, not as mere symbols of a state.

There is Nir Shaviv, one of the world's only actual climate scientists (of whom there are no more than a dozen or so) whose research includes exploring the cosmic and solar drivers of climate variability rather than working the AGW religion which produces nothing else but a steady stream of grant money and scary headlines.

Then there is Mordecei Vanunu, who alerted the world to a deadly evil long before the whistleblowing achievements of Julian Assange and Edward Snowden.

And there's Schlomo Sand whose groundbreaking anthropological studies have blown away some deeply held myths of the Zionists whose racism largely permeates the Western world.

Arab achievements? Oh nothing much. Just algebra, first awakening of chemistry, that sort of stuff. And peacefully inhabiting the land of Palestine for centuries. Balanced against that the worst of them have polluted the world with Islam.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Friday, 9 September 2016 12:58:57 PM
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A Chinese researcher, Tu Youyou was awarded half the 2015 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for discovering Artemisinin, "a drug that has significantly reduced the mortality rates for patients suffering from Malaria". Good on her.

I guess we can now ignore the Chinese occupation of Tibet, or their terrible record on human rights. Because if their medical researchers come up with useful life-saving treatments then that makes everything they do OK, right Dave?
Posted by Toni Lavis, Friday, 9 September 2016 1:20:59 PM
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#Emperor

Your citing of Arab achievments in algebra and chemistry occurred many centuries ago. It apparently has been all downhill since then if your apparent inability to find anything else is any guide.

Have you nothing of import that may have happened in the Arab world among the vast Arab nation of about 367 million people in the last 10 years?

Here are another three recent Israeli achievements coming from a population of about 8 million people - 20% of whom are Arabs:

1.The US FDA has approved the use of the WatchPAT Sleep Apnea device from Israel’s Itamar Medical being extended to adolescents of twelve years old and above. Previously, WatchPAT was only approved for use on those aged seventeen and above.

2. In just one week, eight Syrians who were severely injured in artillery strikes on a hospital were evacuated by Israeli helicopters from Syria to Israel. They included two children, aged 7 and 11. Israel has treated 2,500 wounded Syrians over the past 3 years.

3. Salah Abd Alhalem, Adam Garah and Ayman Sarha’an from Israel’s Technion Institute have invented a device that correlates a watermelon's internal and external appearance. Using three pictures of the melon at different angles, an algorithm determines its taste rating with 100% accuracy.

Score is now Israel 18 - Arabs 0

You are falling further behind with each post.

Put your Jew hatred aside, do some research and trumpet a few Arab achievements that will benefit humankind (if you can find any).
Posted by david singer, Friday, 9 September 2016 1:34:43 PM
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Re Moslem achievements (not that they have anything to do with the rights and wrongs of the Zionist theft of Palestine) there is an interesting article by a Moslem at
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/why-muslims-have-only-few-nobel-prizes.aspx?pageID=449&nID=52473&NewsCatID=411

The writer's opening sentence establishes that he is mired in religious superstition, but his article goes on to explain why Arabs had so much to contribute in the year 1000 and so little today.

Israel is a Western colonial possession and as such shares the knowhow inherited from the European Enlightenment. It does not, however, share the values of the late 1940s Nuremberg trials which codify what was learnt from the Nazi aggression of the mid-1940s which could be defeated only by years of relentless destruction and not by a few puny rockets fired into its heartland.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Friday, 9 September 2016 3:14:38 PM
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#Toni

Your attempt to connect China's occupation of Tibet since 1950 - a previously sovereign independent State - with the position in the West Bank and Gaza is disingenuous for the following reasons:

1.Gaza and the West Bank have never been sovereign independent States.
2. 100% of Gaza's population is governed by Hamas.
3. 95% of the Arab population of the West Bank presently residing in Areas "A" and "B" of the West Bank are governed by the PLO under the Oslo Accords.
4. The remaining 5% of the West Bank Arab population are located in Area "C" and are governed by Israel under the Oslo Accords.

What China has done cannot be condoned under any circumstances. China will never allow Tibet to become an independent State once again.

Israel made offers in 2000/1 and 2007 to cede its claims to sovereignty in more than 90% of the West Bank and all of Gaza to enable a second sovereign independent Arab State to be created in former Palestine in addition to Jordan. Those offers were rejected by the PLO.

# Emperor

I found the closing paragraph in the article you cited -which you conveniently ignored - very relevant.

"However, today’s common Muslim mind, including the intellectual Muslim mind, is quite insular, and is focused on protecting an “Islamic” (and quite closed) mental sphere from influences from the outside world. The result is a defensive culture that refuses to engage with the ideas of “the unbelievers,” and therefore only repeats what it has learned from its own forebears. If we Muslims want more Nobel Prizes – and all the knowledge, sophistication and success that they imply – we must begin with challenging this closed-mindedness, and strive to have more open minds."

"Closed-mindedness" by the 21 Arab States - with the notable exception of Jordan and Egypt - in refusing to accept the Jewish-state of Israel and its amazing achievements for all human kind that I have been detailing - needs to end.

So does your Jew-hatred to see Israel disappear off the map.

Focus on creating - not destroying.
Posted by david singer, Saturday, 10 September 2016 9:45:08 AM
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I think I'm getting the hang of Mr Singer's shrill advocacy of a disgraceful cause – his mind is so blinded by racist prejudice that he has no eye for detail and can't get his mind around the blindingly obvious.

Take this example (and there are boundless others):

“I found the closing paragraph in the article you cited - which you conveniently ignored - very relevant.”

My cited response to the author's closing paragraph, far from conveniently ignoring it

“[The writer's] article goes on to explain why Arabs had so much to contribute in the year 1000 and so little today.”

The noises going on in Mr Singer's head (“Jew haters”, “antisemites”, “Nazi final solutions” etc etc) completely drown out all detail of what appears in plain English before him. Like the words “and so little today”.

The details of reality so escape Mr Singer's attention that he has no conception of the world-changing history that separates a colonialist declaration of the nineteen twenties from the postwar decolonisation and the values that have come with it. He finds too difficult the difference between a state and the individuals living and working and achieving within it. This despite the precedent of a state – the racist Boer apartheid state of South Africa – being wiped off the face of the earth. Demolished. Old history. Without injury to the people living within it. Just another detail whose relevance escapes those whose thinking is drowned out by propaganda-fed race-supremacist gut instincts.

Mr Singer is a lost cause, so bound by the chains of racism as to be unable to engage with reality-based discourse as to repeat endless rehashes of complaints about this or that Western national or political voice that doesn't buy the racist claim of a God-chosen race born to rule over “inferiors”. He can't even see racism when it stares him in the face.

Maybe (but not in this dying thread) I'll outline a just, non-racist two state solution for Palestine. It's not rocket science.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Saturday, 10 September 2016 1:52:32 PM
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#Emperor

I am well aware that you conceded the Arabs have produced precious little to advance humankind for many centuries.

It would have been more honest for you to point out the reason attributed by the author of the article you specifically cited : closed - mindedness.

You knew this was the author's conclusion but sought to cover up the reason because you exhibit the same trait: closed-mindedness.

Jew-hatred can be soul-destroying and in your case this is clearly evident.

Now you come up with this doozy:

"Maybe (but not in this dying thread) I'll outline a just, non-racist two state solution for Palestine. It's not rocket science."

Why keep the readers in suspense?

It's not rocket science to understand that when you make a claim like this then you need to substantiate it.

Put up or shut up.

BTW - here are another three examples of what Jews in the Jewish State are doing:

1. A covert operation has ensured that Yehia (born with multiple heart defects) is the first Afghan to have been treated by Israel’s Save a Child’s Heart organization - (SACH) - joining some 4,000 children from over 50 other countries who have been similarly saved. SACH has trained nearly 80 physicians and nurses at the SACH center in Israel from China, Ethiopia, Moldova, Nigeria, the Palestinian Authority, Eritrea, Vietnam, Kenya and Zanzibar.

2. Researchers at Tel Aviv University and in the Netherlands have developed a breakthrough material that can be “morphed” into any shape. The programmable metamaterial could be ideal for prostheses or wearable technology in which a close fit with the body is important.

3. A delegation of 10 Australian cybersecurity and fintech startups will take part in an accelerator program in Tel Aviv in September to boost Sydney’s position as an innovation hub. It is part of the Australian Government’s Landing Pads initiative to promote innovation and entrepreneurship in Australia.

As you now acknowledge - the Arabs have done nothing really positive for centuries.

No use keeping the score. It is an Israeli walkover.

Open your mind and acknowledge Israel's amazing achievements.
Posted by david singer, Sunday, 11 September 2016 1:21:20 PM
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//Your attempt to connect China's occupation of Tibet since 1950 - a previously sovereign independent State - with the position in the West Bank and Gaza//

You misunderstand my point. Deliberately so, I suspect.

Or perhaps you're just not that clever.

Either way, the point I was trying to make was that achievements made by citizens of a given state do not somehow excuse misdeeds committed by said state. Who taught you ethics? Because if they taught you that positive propaganda excuses immoral behaviour, they taught you wrong. You might want to sue them for malpractice.

The development of life-saving malaria treatments by Chinese researchers is terrific, but it doesn't negate China's dreadful record on human rights.

The development of human heart transplants in apartheid South Africa was great, but it didn't cancel out the immorality of apartheid.

The development of the V2 guided rocket was a staggering technological achievement which paved the way to later developments in rocketry, including the Apollo program. And the VW Beetle is still an awesome automobile. Neither of them - nor any other beneficial achievement of the Nazis - can ever make the Shoah OK.

Do you get it yet? All the leukemia treatments and melon rating algorithms (I'm nominating the latter for an IgNobel) developed by Israeli citizens can never excuse immoral actions by the state of Israel because, well, that's just not how it works.

Pro-Israeli propaganda outlining the achievements of Israeli citiziens does not, can not, and will never be able to, excuse immoral behaviour committed by the state of Israel.

You might want to attempt a line of argument without holes the size of Jupiter in it. Otherwise you make life too easy for your opponents, and people tire quickly of shooting fish in barrels.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Sunday, 11 September 2016 2:41:21 PM
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#Toni

A. Could you please specify in detail the "misdeeds" or "immoral behaviour of Israel" that you are referring to?

How do you equate those misdeeds or immoral behaviour with these examples cited by you?

"China's dreadful record on human rights"
"Apartheid South Africa"
"The Shoah"

B. Do you accept the factual accuracy of the following statements

1.Gaza and the West Bank have never been sovereign independent States.
2. 100% of Gaza's population is governed by Hamas.
3. 95% of the Arab population of the West Bank presently residing in Areas "A" and "B" of the West Bank are governed by the PLO under the Oslo Accords.
4. The remaining 5% of the West Bank Arab population are located in Area "C" and are governed by Israel under the Oslo Accords.
5. Israel made offers in 2000/1 and 2007 to cede its claims to sovereignty in more than 90% of the West Bank and all of Gaza to enable a second sovereign independent Arab State to be created in former Palestine in addition to Jordan. Those offers were rejected by the PLO.

C. My pointing out the many positive achievements emanating from Israel was made in response to #Emperor's view that the Jewish State of Israel should be wiped off the map - as he expressed himself:

"The Zionists can be defeated by building the revulsion of the world community, including the Jews, against the racist excrescence of overlord Israel. Rocket attacks into Israel are unlikely to do it."

Do you have the same view as Emperor?
Posted by david singer, Sunday, 11 September 2016 9:28:07 PM
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//Could you please specify in detail the "misdeeds" or "immoral behaviour of Israel" that you are referring to?//

Well here's one:

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/israel-apologises-over-mossad-passport-row/2005/06/26/1119724524564.html

http://www.smh.com.au/world/not-a-smiling-assassin-but-a-victim-of-fraud-20100309-pvuw.html

http://www.smh.com.au/national/mossad-hit-snares-australians-20100225-p60e.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/feb/17/dubai-assassins-stolen-british-identities

Which puts paid to any notion that Israel are shining beacons of moral virtue. Nobody's perfect. We lock up children in indefinite detention, abuses ones in the child correctional service, etc. No, they're not the Khmer Rouge. But they're hardly saints either, and trying to claim that they are thanks to their wondrous melon-rating algorithms is patently ridiculous.

//How do you equate those misdeeds or immoral behaviour with these examples cited by you?//

Umm, because they've all committed immoral behaviour? It's not exactly quantum electrodynamics, Dave: if you do something morally wrong, you've behaved immorally. Things that are morally wrong do not magically become right if they are compared to things that are morally worse (e.g. the Shoah), nor do two wrong things cancel out to make a right thing. And I'd still like a word with your ethics teacher.

//Do you have the same view as Emperor?//

I don't know. I'm not not as telepathic as you are, Dave, and I can't read his mind. I don't even bother to try, it just gives me a headache. I've always wanted to meet a genuine telepath. Are the al-foil hats which conspiracy theorists are traditionally ridiculed for wearing actually effective in blocking thought rays, or are we right to continue mocking them? What happens if you telepathise somebody who is asleep? I'll probably think of more questions later.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Friday, 16 September 2016 6:45:21 AM
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#Toni

Nice to see that you acknowledge that at least Israel "is not the Khmer Rouge. But they're hardly saints"

Of course they are hardly saints and are entitled to be criticised and held to account for their actions - like any other countries.

Jews have been in a state of unresolved conflict with 21 Arab States for the last 100 years. Resolving that conflict must be the primary ongoing objective of both the Jews and Arabs to end "misdeeds" such as the one you refer to.

The solution certainly is not to call for Israel to be wiped off the map as #Geoff, #Thomas O'Reilly and #nickname wish to see.

Do you want to see Israel wiped off the map? I asked that question last time round but you deftly managed to avoid answering it.

Just a "yes" or "no" will suffice.

Syria, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Egypt, Yemen, North Korea, Kenya, China, Nigeria, Turkey, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia - or even Australia - are not saints either.

Where would you rank Israel among these nations? Number 1 or where in the pecking order?

In the year ended September 13, 2016, "the General Assembly adopted 19 resolutions condemning Israel and 7 critical of human rights violations by all other 192 UN countries combined. Action on Syria totaled one resolution, despite upwards of 400,000 dead and counting. The UN’s egregious discrimination and demonization of the Jewish state – directed at Israelis regardless of where they live – is the anti-Jewish kind of hate and incitement."
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/09/14/all-jews-out-palestine-is-not-peace-plan.html

Do you consider the UN to be immoral in so acting given what is happening in just those 16 UN countries named above?

Just a "yes" or "no" answer will suffice.
Posted by david singer, Friday, 16 September 2016 1:41:43 PM
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Yes.

The same way Boer South Africa was wiped off the face of the earth and for much the same reason - the racial supremacism (i.e. racism) of a well armed minority. A racism with which the international community lost patience. Racist Israel's turn will be next.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Friday, 16 September 2016 3:16:37 PM
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@ david singer: "The solution certainly is not to call for Israel to be wiped off the map as ... #Thomas O'Reilly .... wish to see."

Stop lying about me and defaming me you lowlife scumbag insidious creep!

Don't you dare "put words in my mouth" you lying Hasbara hasbeen and decrepit delusional idiot. (I can prove these valid opinions btw)

I already warned you - I will slap a lawsuit on you as quick as greased lighten if you do not RETRACT YOUR LYING DEFAMATION.

I don't care if I win it or not - it will be a joy to see no matter what.

What I did say was that Israel is, in my opinion, an illegitimate nation state and always has been. I offered a little of my reasoning.
The legal brief is too large to post in 350 words.

If you were not such an insidious dishonourable dishonest fanatical religious bigoted zealot you would have included a link ref to other threads here of what you falsely CLAIM other people say.

But your a pathetic sick phuk who intentionally covers his tracks and his lies as all Hasbaras are taught to do.

The only person who mentioned JEWS has been you Singer, you stupid fool!

The USSR, Kampuchea and Hitler all disappeared from the face of the Earth.

So goes you and the State of Israel, eventually. Your days are numbered.
-
Posted by Thomas O'Reilly, Friday, 16 September 2016 4:43:17 PM
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//Do you want to see Israel wiped off the map? I asked that question last time round but you deftly managed to avoid answering it.

Just a "yes" or "no" will suffice.//

"Yes" or "no". Happy now?

Sorry, just my little joke. It would keep cartographers in work, and there's precious little left to be charted out there.

But against the needs of the cartographers we have to weigh the needs, desires and hopes of the poor Israeli buggers caught up in the middle of all this shite, and in the end I think they win. The Israeli children too young to know aught of the politics don't deserve to be made Stateless because of the mistakes of 'wiser' adults. Oh please won't somebody think of the children?

//Where would you rank Israel among these nations?//

Nah, you've left Ireland & the UK off the list. You seem to have forgotten both the Americas and the bit in between, and you're Asian sample is skewed too far north. But coming back to Europe, you should have at least included the Vatican and Belgium as the control sample.

//Do you consider the UN to be immoral in so acting given what is happening in just those 16 UN countries named above?//

Nah, I've had enough of your answering your questions for now. Time for you to answer one of mine:

Who taught you ethics? Simple question, Dave. That's twice you've dodged it now.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Friday, 16 September 2016 10:59:35 PM
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The Jews are no more a nation than the Celts. Jews, like Celts, have dozens of homelands - Australia is one of them - in which they are no more "special"or less "special" than the rest of the population. Most Jews are perfectly content with this.

A racist is someone who denigrates a small part of the population (regards them as less "special") on the basis of their ancestry. An ULTRA-racist is someone who elevates (as more "special) a small part of the population on their ancestry.

David Singer like all who follow his whining about the world ganging up against racist Israel is an ULTRA-racist. The only ultra-racist country than Israel is Boer South Africa, and that has been wiped off the face of the earth.

The bell now tolls for Israel (www.gradesaver.com/donne-poems/study-guide/for-whom-the-bell-tolls), and its sound is menacing to Mr Singer's ears. Israel is (precariousy) safe for now because not enough people can yet hear it. I can clearly remember the day when not enough people could hear the bell tolling for ultra-racist Boer South Africa - now it's a distant memory.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Saturday, 17 September 2016 12:28:48 AM
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#Emperor

Thank you for being frank in wanting to see “Racist Israel” wiped off the face of the map.

That explains why your stock in trade is to continuously obfuscate, lie and deceive in an attempt to denigrate and delegitimise the Jewish State of Israel.

You are an advocate of the “Zionism is Racism” rubbish which was finally repudiated by the United Nations on 16 December 1991.

111 nations voted in favour of repealing its own vile 1975 Resolution. 25 nations, mostly Islamic and hard-line Communists, voting against. Thirteen nations abstained. Seventeen other countries, including Egypt, which recognizes Israel, and Kuwait and China, did not take part in the voting.

Your closed-mindedness to ever accepting decisions by the League of Nations and the United Nations vesting legal rights in the Jewish people to reconstitute the Jewish National Home in 22% of former Palestine is unfortunately held by others such as #Geoff, #Thomas O’Reilly and #nickname who take every opportunity to comment in the identical manner to you.

The 78% of former Palestine the Arabs already occupy and control is not enough for you or them. You want to see the Arabs occupying and controlling all 100% and the Jews nothing.

That is Jew-hatred pure and simple.

You and your fellow travellers are perfectly entitled to hold that view. But do so honestly and with integrity based on facts – not the false and misleading facts you and your mates continually present to advance your racist objective of a Jew-free Palestine.

#Thomas O’Reilly

What a remarkable vitriolic outpouring by you exposing your unquenchable Jew-hatred:
“Israel is, in my opinion, an illegitimate nation state and always has been”

Substantiate this claim in 100 posts of 350 words with facts – not personal and hateful abuse.

At least #Emperor had the intellectual honesty to admit he wants to see the Jewish State of Israel disappear off the face of the map despite the international community’s unanimous decision to lay the groundwork for such a State 100 years ago.

You would do well to follow #Emperor’s frank admission and cut out the false posturing.
Posted by david singer, Sunday, 18 September 2016 8:03:16 AM
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#Toni Lavis

My question to you was:
‘“Just a "yes" or "no" will suffice”’

Your smug reply was:
‘"Yes" or "no". Happy now?”’

No Toni – I am not happy at your turning a serious question into an answer of sarcasm and ridicule.

Even #Emperor had the intellectual honesty to answer that question. You haven’t.

Nor am I happy with your sense of morals and ethics that you so loudly trumpet contained in this snide and evasive reply:

“Sorry, just my little joke. It would keep cartographers in work, and there's precious little left to be charted out there.

But against the needs of the cartographers we have to weigh the needs, desires and hopes of the poor Israeli buggers caught up in the middle of all this shite, and in the end I think they win. The Israeli children too young to know aught of the politics don't deserve to be made Stateless because of the mistakes of 'wiser' adults. Oh please won't somebody think of the children?”

Just the children are your concern?

What about innocent Jewish and Arab adult civilians in Israel being constantly targeted by:
1. tens of thousands of rockets fired indiscriminately into Israeli civilian population centres from Gaza
2. Attack tunnels being built into Israel from Gaza by Hamas for the purpose of murdering Israeli civilians
3. Murders being carried out by Arabs from the West Bank involving stabbings, cars running down civilians, murders perpetrated on Israeli adults and children eating a pizza or attending a night club or praying in a Synagogue or asleep in their own houses.

Just do it for the children?

I think you are slowly exposing your true self under the false cover of a being highly ethical and moral person.

You refuse to rank Israel among the 16 nations I named who virtually escape the world’s censure whilst Israel is routinely and almost single-handedly condemned by the United Nations many of whose members appear to have the same ethics as you.

Who taught me ethics? The Ten Commandments and the Ethics Of The Fathers.

Who taught you ethics?
Posted by david singer, Sunday, 18 September 2016 8:15:56 AM
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//No Toni – I am not happy at your turning a serious question into an answer of sarcasm and ridicule.

Even #Emperor had the intellectual honesty to answer that question. You haven’t.//

Oh, lighten up you miserable old prick. There are no prizes for being sour all the time, and I sincerely doubt that anybody on their deathbed has regretted that they didn't laugh less and whinge more during their life.

//Nor am I happy with your sense of morals and ethics that you so loudly trumpet contained in this snide and evasive reply://

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/3/36818/1824338-95b6c6f8_6c64_435e_adb9_97a8faaf405e.jpg

//Who taught me ethics? The Ten Commandments//

Well there's your problem. You want to stop paying so much attention to those and follow the 2nd Great Commandment instead - treat other people the way you'd like to be treated. A bit less Exodus 21:23-25 (an eye for an eye and all that unpleasant shite), and a bit more Leviticus 19:18 (love thy neighbour as thyself - and we all know how much thou loves thyself).

Your posts never seem to express much love for your Arabic neighbours. Or indeed any of your other neighbours who aren't staunchly pro-zionist.

Never mind Elder Hillel's one sentence summation of the Torah:

"What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow: this is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."

Because it's pretty clear that you're not real big on the whole 'learning' thing.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Sunday, 18 September 2016 9:44:23 AM
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so all those who want the Jews gone from Palestine
support the idea that taking in huge numbers of refugees fleeing from
war as the jews were after world war2, should not be taken in
and given assylum by non Jewish countries.

Maybe you could explain the hyprocricy in saying the Jews should have never
been granted assylum in Palestine after world war2, and on the other hand
criticising Europe and Australia for not taking in huge numbers of Arabs fleeing from the Syrian war.
Posted by CHERFUL, Thursday, 22 September 2016 8:39:24 PM
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Two neurones would be ample to rebut Cherful's point.

Nobody suggests Jewish refugees shouldn't have been given asylum in Palestine or that Jews should be gone from the land.

Only that the expansionist ultra-racist state should never have been created and that the refugees should live in Palestine according to Palestinian sovereign law not as racially defined overlords.

Also, it's a crude distortion to describe the terrorists who shot their way in to Palestine were refugees. Refugees from what?
Posted by EmperorJulian, Thursday, 22 September 2016 10:42:04 PM
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