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The Forum > Article Comments > A nation of victims > Comments

A nation of victims : Comments

By David Leyonhjelm, published 24/12/2014

Owning any object for the purpose of self-defence, lethal or non-lethal, is a criminal offence. Those trapped within the Lindt café were left helpless, as carrying items for self-defence is not allowed under State law.

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Part of me wants to agree with you, but then I think of the Americans using exactly that same argument for the right to carry guns.

The numbers of Americans killed by guns is horrendous and even so called non lethal means of self defence can kill.

Spraying a gunman with pepper spray or mace, will not guarantee your safety.
Posted by Wolly B, Wednesday, 24 December 2014 9:21:27 AM
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So what would happen if we abolished all the laws on the sale and carrying of guns and other weapons?

Serious criminals probably already have access to restricted weapons. The main effect, I think, would be a proliferation of such weapons in the general community with related increased access by lower level criminals and delinquents. In my judgement there is likely to be an increase (not a decrease) in innocent lives lost.

There is a case for allowing personal use of mace and pepper spray on the part of vulnerable members of the community. I see no case for general access to body armour or Tasers.

I can't see the average civilian wearing body armour for protection, though it has a role in the case of police or security guards. The main improper use of body armour, that comes to mind, was by offenders in the infamous North Hollywood shootout ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout).
Posted by Bren, Wednesday, 24 December 2014 9:47:30 AM
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I recently dealt with some clients who live in a major US city. They commented that nearly 150 people were killed by firearm in their city in the past year, yet the area they live in is completely free of such crime.

I asked whether they knew what was causing these people to be shot and the immediate answer was "drug crime and gangs".

Many US states will issue a permit for people to carry firearms for personal protection. To be issued such a permit a person needs to complete a course of training and be approved by their relevant authority. Perhaps counter to the expectations of local politicians and media, where states have pursued this action, deaths involving firearms have reduced, in some cases considerably.

Contrary to the common perception that "america has no gun laws", the city my clients live in has among the most restrictive laws in the US for personal ownership and use of firearms, yet like the other jurisdictions famous for having similar restrictions has such a high rate of firearm deaths. I was surprised to find that they knew of no examples of people outside the illicit drug trade was involved in any firearm deaths.

I presume their information may be incomplete, but anecdotally it suggests there may be some validity in further analysis of exactly who is being killed by firearms in the US and whether there is a match to what is happening in parts of Australia. IE gun crime is a symptom of other problems, rather than a disease in itself.
Posted by The Mild Colonial Boy, Wednesday, 24 December 2014 10:50:15 AM
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Do we really want to be sitting in a restaurant or café and wondering how many of the other clientele are packing heat?

Personally as an ex-pat American, I feel a lot safer in Australia. Arming everyone is not the answer. There are always crazy people who will get their hands on a gun if they are determined; there is no need to make it easier.

I'm not sure of the number but there have been quite a few road rage incidents involving guns in the USA. Given the number of road rage incidents here in Australia, we are fortunate those involved were not armed.
Posted by ConservativeHippie, Wednesday, 24 December 2014 11:11:09 AM
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Time for a sober, factual assessment,

Agenda: Monis was never licensed
http://www.skynews.com.au/video/program_agenda/2014/12/18/agenda-monis-was--never-licensed-.html
Posted by onthebeach, Wednesday, 24 December 2014 12:00:00 PM
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The Mild colonial boy: It is a real treat to read factual data, rather than the unsubstantiated ideas of the anti gun brigade!

As things stand, the criminals/crazies are the only one able to obtain unrestricted access to their choice of firearms. Brand new, wrapped in grease paper and still in the box!
And never seen customs let alone a legal dealer!

Factually, some very dangerous people are able to get their hands on lethal weapons with impunity, and use them when and where they choose!

Take a look around any crowded cafe right now, with the laws as they stand, and understand the man smiling at the waiter, may well be armed for bear. How would anyone know? Well?

As the wild colonial boy points out, most of the US killings are gang on gang member, or armed clashes between drug dealers and the like!

Decriminalizing most of that trade, and allowing legal and very controlled drug outlets, would make most of the drug related violence just go away.

The war on terror is picking up, and we are not safe on our own streets!
Even with the laws changed, there'd be no compulsion to carry a firearm.
However, nobody has the right to prevent other law abiding citizens from exercising a right to protect themselves.

The statistical evidence shows, we are in no more danger from an armed law abiding citizenry, than police forces; who present around the world, with similar gun crime numbers, or gun related suicide.

As usual, the anti gun lobby are the most vociferous when it comes to euthanasia, but withhold the most potent means of achieving that end!

I suppose its okay to top yourself, always providing there's no unsightly mess?
An interesting juxtaposition!

As the cafe killings exposed, we are just ducks in a barrels!

Politicians and their new gun laws haven't made any of us safer!
They have however, handed our streets to the criminals and the crazies!

They did what They could to outlaw guns, now it's mostly outlaws, who have the guns!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Wednesday, 24 December 2014 12:44:07 PM
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