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The Forum > Article Comments > Why mandatory prison sentences are wrong > Comments

Why mandatory prison sentences are wrong : Comments

By John Spender, published 16/12/2013

Sentencing is a tricky and troubling business. Judges are anxious to get it right, and mostly they do get it right – or as right as could fairly and reasonably be expected of them.

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Stiff Do Do. Your extreme example knows now right from wrong. Do the crime, do the time. No sympathy. I think some of these Judges are on the "Take" with their lenient sentencing especially when it comes to Corporate Crime & Drugs.
Posted by Jayb, Monday, 16 December 2013 8:38:30 AM
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The author betrays his ignorance of the subculture he seeks to defend here with his ridiculous scenario. Bikie gangs are nothing if not consistent and no gang would allow any newbie to wear the colors in the manner suggested here. Nor would it be at all likely that they would be robbing a Liquor store. Criminal activity dealing in drugs I would believe but the scenario here is just stupid.

There is a very simple reason that legislators have turned to mandatory sentencing and that is way that so many Judges have been too lenient, in particular to repeat offenders. Part of this has to be down to pressure from the bureaucracy to constrain the costs of the Justice system but part of it has to be willful gullibility form the Judiciary, they want to believe the sob stories because it makes giving into the cost pressures easier.
Posted by Iain, Monday, 16 December 2013 8:51:53 AM
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John Spender writes:

< The effect of mandatory sentencing is to replace a judge's decision, given in full knowledge of the facts, with an absolute rule that excludes any knowledge of the particular facts of cases to which the rule applies. If the offence is X, the sentence is Y. End of story. You don't need a judge; the computer can do it for you. >

Yes. Mandatory sentencing is abhorrent… unless the mandatory penalty is right at the most lenient end of the spectrum, and a judge or jury is free to impose much harsher penalties if deemed appropriate.

As flawed as our legal system is, harsh mandatory sentences would not help at all. They’d only make it considerably worse.

< Bikie gangs are a menace to our society. There are ways to deal with them without the rampant degradation of our judicial system. Guilt by association, mandatory sentences, throwing judicial processes onto the junk pile, is tick-a-box justice of the worst type, brought about by political posturing and opportunism that has no place in a democratic society. >

Absolutely!
Posted by Ludwig, Monday, 16 December 2013 9:23:37 AM
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Sentencing should fit the crime, so it is hard to see that, left to judges, so many suspended sentences are handed down for what most rational people regard as serious crimes. Like politicians, judges live in a world of their own and, like politicians, cannot be trusted to do the jobs required of them.

Mr. Spender certainly cannot “(say) the system (he favours) is perfect”; more and more people are wondering if there is any justice available to victims the way many, if not most, judges carry on these days.

Judges let society down time and time again. Nobody wants mandatory sentencing for a mentally deficient shop lifter and the like; but, for crimes of violence, involving victims who suffer into the future, or who are mentally and physically damaged by a criminal (and there a countless other areas) – mandatory sentencing is a must. Death by dangerous/drunken driving is a growing example of these instances.

Iain is onto the naivety of judges in real world situations, and many of us wonder whether it is fear for themselves that stops judges from handing down realistic sentences; perhaps judges should no longer be appointed by equally useless politicians, but should be grilled like any other job applicants to see if they have what it takes to do a job requiring no fear or favour.
Posted by NeverTrustPoliticians, Monday, 16 December 2013 10:45:28 AM
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Rather than judges getting it right most of the time, they in fact rarely get it right in the communities eyes.

If judges were getting it right, there would be no push for mandatory sentences.

When the penalty applied for traveling a few Ks over the speed limit is greater than that for holding up the local service station, with a handgun, it is time to lock up the judges, [who must be insane, or crooked], along with the criminals.

We the public just want the crims out of our lives. Most of us don't care much whether this is achieved by a caning, Singapore style, to belt some sense into them, or by locking up repeat offenders for the rest of their lives. Why is this so hard for someone with a law degree to understand?

John, go do good somewhere else. You've got this one totally wrong. If judges can't bring themselves to do the right thing by the community, it is time to order them to do so with mandatory sentences.
Posted by Hasbeen, Monday, 16 December 2013 11:06:31 AM
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Good article. Not surprised to read the comments declaring judges hardly ever get it right or that "crims" should be locked away for the rest of their lives. Good to see such simplistic thinking is alive and well in Australia. I reckon they might change their tune though if it were one of their own family members given a massive mandatory sentence that did not reflect the severity of the crime committed.
A shame to seeing us heading down the same path as the USA with ever more draconian sentences resulting in ever increasing numbers of prisoners who lose any opportunity to turn their lives around. Why do we have to emulate the worst characteristics of such countries
Posted by Rhys Jones, Monday, 16 December 2013 12:01:22 PM
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The John Spender hypothesis predicates that the public has complete faith in the integrity and objective of the judges and the legal profession. Unfortunately this is not the case!
Posted by anti-green, Monday, 16 December 2013 12:23:54 PM
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Rhys: I reckon they might change their tune though if it were one of their own family members given a massive mandatory sentence that did not reflect the severity of the crime committed.

Sorry Rhys but it wouldn't change my mind.

What do you call a non-severe crime. Being a known criminal & caught carrying a concealed firearm hanging around a Service Station? Holding up a liquor Store & threatening the attendant? Slapping someone around because they haven't paid their Drug Bill? Punching someone because you didn't like the way they looked?

I take it by your Standard these things would only require a "Please don't do it again, see you next time ;-)" by the Judge.
Posted by Jayb, Monday, 16 December 2013 1:01:04 PM
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' It is an art, not a science; judges are human beings, not Solomon. '

Yep Solomon had commonsense unlike many of our judges. I do wonder if John is also one of the idiotic no smack brigade that condone parents never giving their children any useful discipline. Mandatory sentencing is so popular because the judges are so out of touc
Posted by runner, Monday, 16 December 2013 1:52:43 PM
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>>What do you call a non-severe crime.<<

Petty theft: I don't think stealing a pair of socks worth $2.50 is a severe crime. I think it is a crime but it is a fairly minor crime: not a crime that warrants a sentence of 25 years to life - the sort of sentence we give to murderers. Read this article and tell me if you still think mandatory sentencing is a good idea:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/cruel-and-unusual-punishment-the-shame-of-three-strikes-laws-20130327

I think you'll probably be in a minority if you do. The public want punishments that fit the crime: that means sentences that aren't too lenient but it also means sentences that aren't too harsh and out of proportion to the severity of the offence. Lengthy incarceration for minor offences is just as ridiculous as slaps on the wrist for violent offences and a lot more expensive to the taxpayer.

Cheers,

Tony
Posted by Tony Lavis, Monday, 16 December 2013 2:09:03 PM
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Tony Lavis: Petty theft: I don't think stealing a pair of socks worth $2.50 is a severe crime. I think it is a crime but it is a fairly minor crime.

The Idea of the 3 Strikes is one of deterrent. Preventing crime, no matter how small is better than dealing with a crime. These people always pick on the most minor as an example. Maybe there could be a time limit like there is with Driver points. Maybe a points system would be a good Idea. 1 point, stealing to the value of $10. 2 for a slab/ bottle of Spirits/ Goonie, or $50. 3 for anything of the first two threatening violence, 4 anything of the first 2 with actual violence, 5 with a threatening with a weapon. 6 firing the weapon. 10 wounding. 20 for killing. Don't get me started on Corporate Crime.

Probation & severe fine for first offence up to 3 points. 12 months Jail & a more severe fine for the 2nd offence up to 5 points. 5 years & large fine for the 3rd offence up to 9 points. 10 years & huge fine for an accumulation of over 10 points. Life for an accumulation of 20 points & over. All points accumulate from the first offence. No probation.
Posted by Jayb, Monday, 16 December 2013 4:12:19 PM
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I can only agree with Hasbeen in his admiration of Singaporean Law, but would suggest there are better examples of REAL mandatory sentencing from there.

The one that appeals is : "If you are found in Singapore with more than 15 grams of heroin in your possession, you will hang".

That is a real suspended sentence!
Posted by plerdsus, Monday, 16 December 2013 4:49:53 PM
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Petty theft:
Tony Levis,
What is the cut-off amount for petty theft ?
Posted by individual, Monday, 16 December 2013 8:20:30 PM
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>>What is the cut-off amount for petty theft ?<<

Dunno off-hand but it probably varies from State to State, so even if I looked it up the answer might be wrong depending on your geographical circumstances. Why don't you just google it instead of expecting me to the repository of all worldly knowledge?

I'm pretty sure that regardless of what State you're in that shoplifting $2.50 worth of merchandise does not constitute major theft and does not attract prison sentences well in excess of those handed down for robbery or assault. I would suggest that this is a good thing but you're welcome to disagree and I'm sure you will.

Cheers,

Tony
Posted by Tony Lavis, Monday, 16 December 2013 8:45:30 PM
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I liked this article and found the author presented an intelligent argument against mandatory sentencing.

I see the usual suspects of this site are out there already, baying for everyone's blood, and praising the violent Indonesian justice system.

Our Judges and jury system should be allowed to judge each crime on its own....because there are always different circumstances.
We can ill afford to 'bung up' every man and their dog for any little crime, and certainly not with mandatory prison sentencing.

We already have minimum sentences for certain levels of crime, and I think that is enough.
We can't keep paying out so much money keeping non-violent criminals in jail, when they can be given other punishments instead.

And yes, I have both a violent criminal, and a dead victim in my own family in the past....
Posted by Suseonline, Monday, 16 December 2013 8:52:34 PM
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Tony Lavis: I'm pretty sure that regardless of what State you're in that shoplifting $2.50 worth of merchandise does not constitute major theft and does not attract prison sentences well in excess of those handed down for robbery or assault.

Depends on how many times you "get Caught" stealing $2.50 worth of merchandise. I think 3 is enough.

Suseonline: because there are always different circumstances.

Of course there are dear. His father beat him. His mother molested him. He had his Teddy stolen at Kindy. He fell of his Bike. Boo Hoo, boo hoo. Therefore he's allowed to go & steal as much as he likes because you feel sorry for him. You probably want to marry him. Some women are attracted to crims, I believe.

Stiff Do do.
Posted by Jayb, Monday, 16 December 2013 9:37:33 PM
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Having become depressed by the incidence of comments on this site that indicated just how crass some people are, I stopped reading it for several months. I just checked back in on an impulse to see if things had improved. Max Walker on Fiji and John Spender on mandatory sentencing both contributed coherent, well reasoned articles. In each case, the first two comments were enough to indicate that reading other forums remains the way to go.
Posted by GlenC, Monday, 16 December 2013 10:12:13 PM
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<< In each case, the first two comments were enough to indicate that reading other forums remains the way to go. >>

Well Glen, I hope the third comment on this thread made you feel a little bit better about the whole deal!! ( :>)

Could you direct me to another forum or two that you think are better than OLO. I’m looking to broaden my horizons.

Thanks.
Posted by Ludwig, Monday, 16 December 2013 11:33:40 PM
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Glen C,
See ya !
Posted by individual, Monday, 16 December 2013 11:40:31 PM
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Don't be so silly Luddy, GlenC is just a smug twit looking for a putdown when he couldn't come up with an argument. Don't expect an answer.

Suse has come up with something though. "We can't keep paying out so much money keeping non-violent criminals in jail, when they can be given other punishments instead" she says, & she's right.

Time to reintroduce the stocks for those $2.50 shop lifters, & chain gang camping at their worksite for the more serious, $10 crims.

Of course there is also the possibility of electric shock collars to replace the chains. They should please the greens, doing less damage to the environment than dragging chains all over it. My neighbor has one on a huge great dog she can't control. It was such a pretty little puppy too. A bit like the crims really. Some of them were quite nice I'm told, that is, before they learnt to walk.
Posted by Hasbeen, Tuesday, 17 December 2013 1:26:08 AM
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>>Time to reintroduce the stocks for those $2.50 shop lifters, & chain gang camping at their worksite for the more serious, $10 crims.<<

Or if we wanted a less farcical sentencing system we could just banish them all to Azkaban.

Cheers,

Tony
Posted by Tony Lavis, Tuesday, 17 December 2013 7:55:26 AM
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mandatory..detention..rated a mention..in
the terms of surrender
basically saying the same as jesus SAID

indeed set the prisoners free
can some-one add in..that all*..private prison contracts
are expired..[on..new years day]..[if you want to rebut that..do oit there

link back..to/here..if you..need to
thank you folks
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=15786&page=0#274098

anyhow..lets reunite the families..the prison..system..broke to bits
just so govt perverts could mind control..your kids.

police policy as if crime
while ignoring the capitalists raping your..govt blind
by..borrowing debt..[explained at thread]..borrowing FROMBAKERS..to bailout banks

and your kids in..jail for pot?
huh?..[govt signed contracts with private prisons..PROMISING FULL..PRISONS..and we got it

there is a new way
it begins on..new yearts day

IF YOU WANT IT*
Posted by one under god, Tuesday, 17 December 2013 5:56:39 PM
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UOG, I lost the plot somewhere near the start.
Posted by Jayb, Tuesday, 17 December 2013 6:13:04 PM
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and your kids in..jail for pot?
oug,
Well, that's a hell of a lot more preferable than having them be a burden on society for the rest of their lives.
Three or so months in the klink for lack of learning that smoking pot is wrong is a small price to pay for a better society.
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 17 December 2013 7:24:34 PM
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Anyone ?
Posted by individual, Thursday, 19 December 2013 10:31:56 AM
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Indy: Anyone?

I agree. I also like the Singapore style of Justice. 3 to 6 months Nick, $500 Fine, 25 Lashes with the Rattan in Public.

Wanna do it again? See what happens next time. 12 months, $2500 Fine, 25 Lashes in Public, twice.

Yep, I'm a great believer in Singapore Justice system. Hanging for Heroin, etc.

I like their Industrial Laws as well.

In a Industrial Dispute All parties must bring their ENTIRE Argument to the Table on THE day. No extra Argument is allowed to be added for any reason. Penalty for infringement. $25000 Fine for the individual, 25 Lashes. $250000 Fine for the Company, 25 Lashes for the CEO's in Public. All Industrial Disputes must be settled & finalized on that day. The Penalty goes up by a factor of 10 for each infringement.

Now that's the way to handle Industrial Disputes & Lawyers don't get rich on peoples misery.
Posted by Jayb, Thursday, 19 December 2013 11:01:05 AM
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Jayb,
cheers for keeping this rather important topic going. The lack of interest is scary, I hope it's not a reflection of the general mentality. If it is we might as well give up now.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 19 December 2013 12:03:09 PM
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alex reveals a bit behind the veil..of evil

they are trying to..get us angry
http://rss.infowars.com/20131124_Sun_Alex.mp3
the beginning..explains the war..between the baddies/the baddies
the middle explains how federal..police are corrupting local police...and how they..assaulted alex..by hurting a child
[they will do much the same..to govt[recall..goerge/blair/john..REALLY believed satans spin

and note..please..the big ending..is important too
perhaps more..try to focus..on what is said

thats what i..like about files..you can rewind..to make sure
thats all tony needs do..check/confirm..dont act fast..not furious
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=15820&page=0
Posted by one under god, Friday, 20 December 2013 7:43:24 AM
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darn 10 [post limit]..i finally have a spare post
indeed as jesus..SAID*..set the prisoners free

if you want to..finish/reply,,..the topic at..link..
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6152&page=0

as well as tie the two*
it would be replied quicker

dear indy..have you ever heard of..jury nullification
http://www.activistpost.com/2013/12/how-jury-nullification-accelerates-drug.html

basically..THE JUDGE..cedes his duty..to..a jury..OF....PEERS
that judge NOT ONLY..the 'guilt or innocence..BUT THE LAW*

What’s at Stake?

What is at stake is huge. You can save reputations. You can save relationships. You can save people’s livelihood or property. You can save their educations, because they might not be able to get a student loan if convicted. You can save their freedom, and you can in fact save their life.

(Even if it’s not a death penalty case people get killed in prison.) You cannot be required to check your conscience at the courthouse door. No victim means no crime.

If there is no victim, then the law is wrong.
The person is not guilty.

ditto taking oath..[forbidden..in..the bible][matt 5;33-37/23;16-25/james5;9-12.]

now this drug law..is statute law..[statute law..ONLY regulates artificial..persons[when govt talk about giving 'rights'..they are ALL..WAYS..talking about corporate 'persons'[ie person..NLY via act]

thus the drug laws police morals..not crime
[see crime [for the living]..is only contract[ie civil law]
or criminal..[ie were YOU can be proved..to have hurt other[or dont obey promise

BOTH..REQUIRE the choice..of trial; by jury

but statute law..because it can..ONLY..judge 'person'[ie Incorporated LIMITED lie-abilty..person-hood..CAN ONLY APPLY..to/the dead

like road law=equals much.the same..THEY ONLY CAN CONTROL..that they created..[ie your license=the person;..but NOT YOU*..only the marriage certificate[contract]..not you
Posted by one under god, Friday, 20 December 2013 12:04:45 PM
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UOG, sorry mate you'll have to make it plain English I'm afraid. You're too cryptic for me.
Posted by Jayb, Friday, 20 December 2013 1:23:22 PM
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thanks jb..this vidio..explains it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OofDALmyKk8&feature=youtu.be

ever since..the magna-carta/charter]..before which..the law'..was anything uttered..by the kings mouth..the vidio..explains the jury has rights..but that..judges set up..conviction..so many/feel they are doing..their 'duty'..only..with..a guilty finding

it was..first raised after a few judges..were blamed for finding guilt..[so rather than risk/judges..it was safer..to give away..the judges right..to a jury..

THEY..judge what..the judges WERE..supposed to judge.[but now its peers..that judge]..but..the judge is/part of the system..if they judge rightly..there is/no true crime..but any/judge..that dont play the game..can/be gotten rid of..thus play/the game

the jury..are not..a[part of/the system..thus can/judge as/THEY chose
the difficulty..being no-one..can'tell/the jury..about their/rights
[so..the thinking is..educate..potential..jurors]..when ever/any are called for duty.[they not only..save their/own souls..but the other 12..who..stain their own soul's..by judging/other..wrongly..

and statute law[any..law/govt makes..is*limited to/that.*it created
ie..their forms ..their licences/their permits..their clients..[see when we apply[apply..means beg]..when we beg..govt/for permitted/ permissions..or license..

that;.which..they made[alone]..is under/their jurisdiction

you as/a living..being have*a license..from god..[but not/a license to lie/or hurt other..[drugs have no..victim.]..thus..there is no valid contract..so..the court..has no lawful_reason to act..no-one has..higher standing

[it thus judges..unlawfully..[but as/the judge is..a lawyer..and the prostituter..*is a lawyer..and the statute*..was written by lawyers ..and lawyers get 200.000..drug cases..each year..thats a lot/of money./for the law society to lose...so the..CRIMINAL/law stays..cause it..raises money..for lawyers.[the..law..is the crime]

the vidio..is about..education..[ok/its in usa..but is..based on magnacarta..protections from abuses..of the unlawful/crown[if/the crown..breaks their rules..they/have thereby..invalidated their own standing]

see in court standing..is everything[standing arises by loss or injury
so if you have a valid contract..with me[only the original has weight]..or if i have hurt/other..caused injury to other,.,they have higher standing..

anyhow its about educating..but govt isnt going to say were tricked you....so its up to..us/the victims of treasonous colluded revenue raising colonizers..who conquer..by faux law[martime law..

law that properly..applied..CAN/ONLY>regulate.,.,..TRADE/trading/licensing..[permission..to/do that..other wise unlawful for a dead person..to/do..[ie drive/driving is commerce...thus road law,,falls under the transport act[transporting goods is commerce]

its about education...juries never get asked why they voted/what.
one educated..on/the jury..and the oppression..is nullified.
Posted by one under god, Friday, 20 December 2013 6:33:33 PM
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Please Watch these Videos and read this excellent article with many links to further information:

listen to alex jones
infowar./.edward griffiths..[creature of jeckle island]
to reveal..the true crims..[as alex says today..its divide and con]

[anyhow..they have asked my demands..[by highjacking my computer
and i have only need for healthy food]..so quite the questionare[for a free computa]..this post WAS*..blanked off by a microSOFT..fact check..page overlay..that put..it,,to sleep..

then the replacement page..deluged me with windows security warnings..but has now been..restored..i..simply began the survey....[and then multi tasking..it was restored..when the page expired]..on reopening..the old [lost page]..was recovered

i took that as a sign/that..peace..could be declared[decreed]..shortly
anyhow,,now is the time..to talk..reveal your grievances
hrh..is listening..

free your loved ones..by recording..
[or blogging..tthe offer..to the powers..that be*
help us set your imprisoned..[non violent]..statuted/criminals free

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6152#178808

are you..man enough for..a just..peace?
are you woman..enough..to forbid..thy children..to/die in ANY war?

are you/humane enough..to see without fear?

all we are saying..is give peace a chance
now make the peace/link..go..viral

[your life /your very living..depends on this
our/final..skirmish..before we all become criminalized..by 'our/own-govt']

its sic*
Posted by one under god, Tuesday, 24 December 2013 6:39:42 PM
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UOG, One thing I've never been good at, Cryptic Puzzles. I've failed to decipher this one too.

I have a copy of the Magna Carta which I got from he Museum in York. If you ever read it right through, it's got nothing for the Common Man. In fact it's a terrible Document. It actually takes away the rights of certain people, Commoners, Jews, etc. It's Good if you were a Lord/Duke/Land holder but not so much for anyone else.
Posted by Jayb, Tuesday, 24 December 2013 8:18:30 PM
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Nobody raises an eyebrow when a parliament sets mandatory maximum sentences for crimes, so why the fuss about mandatory minimum sentences? Judges still have the discretion to set a sentence to fit the crime anywhere between the minimum and maximum. Having said that I have always felt that there is something wierd with Queensland politics.

Perhaps it's the arseholes that are elected as LNP members.
Posted by Richard_C, Wednesday, 25 December 2013 3:12:29 PM
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yeah..hi..john..im CHALLENGING..the free*association..law
on new years eve..at the south bank[i will be comming from the east/likely by train]..i will be wearing my true colours

my name will be under..my..biker name
[nightmare]..the signage holding on my colors..have symbolism
that will be tatood upon my flesh..just in case they try..totake my colours..

the words on my patch..will include the words info wars
one under god then 178808..i expect my death./.by police man
somewhere around 11;11 pm..[so my father advizes

my paternal/father..allows me to speak
my father spirit..insists i..speak

my father..was never meant to be a milker
[fod gods sake jonnie..i was a fully trained fitter turner and welder
your mother was a fully trained secretary..did the compulary 'womans subjects[[cooking sewing you know huse stuff]

i wont speak..of the two years in..boer-[farmer]..hell
but i met a sales man..and became a great salesman..your playing the album..now..that i..gave you for..'helping'..me in my shop[lulu[..is the one you..chose..[lul=penus]..a boere lul..is an..insult..but i know dad was pleased.

anyhow he wanted tojoin..into this australia..with his mates
[in..the rsl]..anyhow long story..short..you recall we went to nederland..[holland]

ya fader..but ihave some news fader
on new years eve[at south bank]..ingoing to wear my bikie jacket
ya fader..im challanging..the free assosiatoion..LAW..

fader..please..
dont be like that
i..will play dead martin..and make you cry

yes i love you too..dad
it was good to see you..too
but dad..its something..ineed to do
they want me to explain..178808..yes father..i..know
but suicide by cop..isnt against the law..see you soonfather

yes iknow dad
of course i will father
[u2..what time?]..ok thanks dad

yep
me too
no..i.wont forget
tot siense fader..ya ya ik ook*
Posted by one under god, Wednesday, 25 December 2013 6:40:55 PM
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madated prison sentances..have been outlawed..even in hell
where..are we..in relation..to revelations..?

let it snow..[the sign/of the times]
http://biblehub.com/revelation/20-3.htm
what links the cold spell..in the north?

A Wanderer in the Sprit Lands, by Franchezzo
(A. Farnese), [1896], at sacred-texts.com
http://new-birth.net/booklet/Wanderer_a4.pdf

CHAPTER IX.--The Frozen Land--The Caverns of Slumber.
I was next sent to visit what will indeed seem a strange country to exist in the spirit world. The Land of Ice and Snow--the Frozen Land--in which lived all those who had been cold and selfishly calculating in their earthly lives.

Those who had crushed out and chilled and frozen from their own lives and the lives of others, all those warm sweet impulses and affections which make the life of heart and soul. Love had been so crushed and killed by them that its sun could not shine where they were, and only the frost of life remained.

Great statesmen were amongst those whom I saw dwelling in this land, but they were those who had not loved their country nor sought its good. Only their own ambitions, their own aggrandizement had been their aim, and to me they now appeared to dwell in great palaces of ice and on the lofty frozen pinnacles of their own ambitions.

Others more humble and in different paths in life I saw, but all alike were chilled and frozen by the awful coldness and barrenness of a life from which all warmth, all passion, was shut out.

I had learned the evils of an excess of emotion and of passion, now I saw the evils of their entire absence. Thank God this land had far fewer inhabitants than the other, for terrible as are the effects of mis-used love, they are not so hard to overcome as the absence of all the tender feelings of the human heart.
Posted by one under god, Friday, 27 December 2013 8:42:31 AM
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UOG: my name will be under..my..biker name
[nightmare]..the signage holding on my colors..have symbolism
that will be tatood upon my flesh..just in case they try..totake my colours..

I can see where you get the Tag "Nightmare."
Posted by Jayb, Friday, 27 December 2013 9:10:06 AM
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