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The Forum > Article Comments > The church that I will advise my grandchildren to attend > Comments

The church that I will advise my grandchildren to attend : Comments

By Brian Holden, published 26/3/2013

The religious know that all is not what it seems, but their assumption of a supernatural presence is wrong.

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Thank you for a brilliantly composed essay. I copied the last two paragraphs to my two teenagers and wife. I have never heard anyone define our human condition with such truthfulness, yet so sensitive to people's different experiences.
Posted by Willem, Tuesday, 26 March 2013 8:48:51 AM
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In his book on religion and society Phil Zuckerman summed up how a society little under the influence of conventional religions can be excellent when he wrote,
"As a social scientist, I cannot make any grand predictions concerning the future trajectory of the human experience here on this earth. But what I can at least do is attempt to paint a portrait of a society that currently exists, right now, at the beginning of the twenty-first century, just below the Arctic Circle, wherein most people don't believe much in God, don't accept the supernatural claims of religion as literally true, seldom go to church at all, and live their lives in a largely secular culture wherein death is calmly, if not stoically, accepted as simply a natural phenomenon and the ultimate meaning of life is nothing more or less than what you make of it. The existence of this relatively irreligious society suggests that religious faith - while admittedly widespread - is not natural or innate to the human condition. Nor is religion a necessary ingredient for a healthy, peaceful, prosperous, and (have I already said it?) deeply good society".

I particularly appreciate the comment; "The ultimate meaning of life is nothing more or less than what you make of it." That seems to me to be what Brian Holden is saying.
Posted by Foyle, Tuesday, 26 March 2013 9:36:53 AM
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This great article gives a better perspective on spirituality than the religious one by Sells that has generated many comments and arguments but no conclusions.

Brian, I hold a similar position to you and we are somewhat unique. We can look at nature without working out how to make a buck via open-cut mining or chopping down all the trees.

The problem is that we live among Philistines and Barbarians who don't understand nature at all or real spirituality. All they understand is creating endless war, killing those who hold different views to them, and playing the stock market.

Poor, sad creatures!
Posted by David G, Tuesday, 26 March 2013 10:05:09 AM
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Lucky you indeed, Mr Holden.

"I will inform my grandchildren that they must find a way to escape the path towards total materialism that technology must, by its essential nature, be forever driving itself. I will inform them that trees and breezes and clouds and changing colours as the sun sets is the true church."

I hope that you will also inform them that it was actually several generations of "materialism" that presently allows you the luxury of indulging yourself amongst the trees, the breezes and the clouds.

If you doubt me, ask a Somalian refugee who has found "shelter" in Ethiopia.

http://www.refugeesinternational.org/where-we-work/africa/somalia?gclid=CKKO24GOmbYCFQocpQodIX8Azg

Have a wonderful, spiritual day.
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 26 March 2013 10:22:12 AM
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A wonderful, well written article that sums up my thoughts very well.
Thank you Brian
Posted by GYM-FISH, Tuesday, 26 March 2013 10:33:19 AM
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While I identify with Brian's walk in the forest he seems to me to be cherry picking among natures many faces. I am reminded that nature also provided the plague in Europe, the Lisbon earthquake as well as the event off the coast of Indonesia in our own time that killed so many. Nature provides us with the AIDs virus.. should I go on.

No, nature is not the solution to our unease at being sentient. While it may be glorious and inspiring it is also completely subject to death.
Posted by Sells, Tuesday, 26 March 2013 11:35:09 AM
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