I really don't know what the United States, or for that matter, this country engages in, in terms of torture ? Or whether that torture is either lawful or unlawful ? Nor do I believe (with respect) do the two authors of this topic, apropos the former ?

But having followed many of the accounts and activities of Mr Hicks, and his alleged military exploits, as far as I'm concerned I believe him to be nothing more then that of a traitor to this country.

I'm a veteran, and as such, I've had a number of sustained discussions with former members of my old platoon at various intervals. Often when much of the time Mr Hicks had featured prominently in the media, and who was often characterized even eulogized as a much revered hero ! A belief that astounds me ?

And to a man they had clearly stated, if they had caught him 'in country' so to speak, he would never have made it back home. Of this fact they were of the very same opinion. All these men as veterans in their own right, believe this is the only appropriate fate for traitors !

Personally, I'm not so sure ? I have nothing but absolute revulsion and disgust for this loathsome Mr Hicks, and everything he stands for. But, we MUST allow the law to take it's course. Otherwise how can we ever hold our collective heads up high, as a country that fully subscribes to the rule of law ?

we MUST allow the law to take it's course
o sung wu,
I agree with the sentiments of the veterans. I am however, very worried about The Law. What if there are no veterans or other real life experienced people in charge of this Law ? What if the Law still is what it was say last year ? Who will represent common sense ? Will a member of the military be on the jury ? Will members of families of those australians soldiers who died in Afghanistan be members of the jury ? Or will just be another academic experts fest ?

Hi there INDIVIDUAL...

Old friend, I hope we NEVER have to consign the safety of our country and families to some academic. I see very little use for them personally. Research Scientists and those within their field, are fine. The persons to whom I refer, are those who purely deal with theory. Social engineers and the like. Those who sit in their dusty little 'spaces' designing 'stuff' that further regulates, inhibits, binds, instructs us, or directs us, how we are to simply live. To raise children, how to think, to act. Those who dare to tell us who we must like, or dislike.

I believe you know INDIVIDUAL, exactly to whom I refer !

Law, I know many of us believe the law is an ass ? But without the law, we have anarchy, chaos, even revolution. The law is all we've got my friend. For better or worse. People like Mr Hicks, though considered a hero by some, knows unquestionably he's a lousy traitor. And the law also protects him, again for better of worse ?

Imagine if you will, when Mr Hicks grows older, marries and has a couple of kids of his own ? How can he face his children, knowing that many people in this country, his country of birth, think of him as a traitor ? When along comes someone from Mr Hick's past, who will probably delight in ensuring his naive, unimpeachable children, are painfully aquainted with the facts concerning their father's past treachery !

How will they feel about this shameful bombshell ? Moreover, how will they deal with the intense ignominy ? This humiliation they'll ultimately need to confront. Knowing their treacherous DAD, is a traitor to his country, the country of his birth ?

Indeed INDIVIDUAL, Mr Hicks may think he's living a splendid life, a life probably paid for by the taxpayer. But this loathsome individual has a very long way to go yet. And good people have long sustained memories. I'm sure you'd agree ?

" People like Mr Hicks, though considered a hero by some, knows unquestionably he's a lousy traitor."

I don't consider him anything but an idiot but until that's an arrestable offence (he was held without charge) the Australian Government should have bent over backwards, including sending in the SAS to extract him from Guntanamo. How repugnant to know where a citizen is being detained with no charge, let alone tortured and do nothing to ensure his release.

One assumes as an ex-member of the military yourself, you would prefer not to have been held and tortured for fighting (lets not drape this with the cloak of anything other than what it is, state sponsored murder) for what you believe in, regardless of what the citizens in Aus. thought of you ? Where are we now on the Vietnamese, the Japanese, Italians and Germans, all once despised enemies ?

We have much more than the law as Aristotle opined, "Law is mind without reason" and Mr Ingersoll's profound statement "Give to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself."

and as to anarchy, I know you use it as a pejorative but some of us "anarchists" tend more towards the 1910 Britannica definition:

"the name given to a principle or theory of life and conduct under which society is conceived without government - harmony in such a society being obtained, not by submission to law, or by obedience to any authority, but by free agreements concluded between the various groups..."

VALLEY GUY...

You of course have got to be kidding ? Send the SAS out to free Mr Hicks ? They'd free him alright. What sort of world do you live ?