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The Forum > Article Comments > Impartial only through an imperial lens > Comments

Impartial only through an imperial lens : Comments

By John Pilger, published 26/11/2012

As Gaza is savaged again, understanding the BBC's role requires more than sentiment.

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Regarding the link that did work, yes a Hezbollah fighter fired some rockets from near the building. And Fisk criticises the fighter for doing so. But Fisk also questions whether the Israeli military's response was appropriate:

"So why did the Israelis kill all these refugee civilians - more than 70 at the latest count - and go on sending 25 shells into the survivors and the bodies around them for up to 10 minutes after the first round had landed?"

And in the same article, Fisk also talks about other civilians killed by the Israeli military in Lebanon:

"But Israel's slaughter of civilians in this terrible 10-day offensive - 206 by last night - has been so cavalier, so ferocious, that not a Lebanese will forgive this massacre. There had been the ambulance attacked on Saturday, the sisters killed in Yohmor the day before, the 2-year-old girl decapitated by an Israeli missile four days ago. And earlier yesterday, the Israelis had slaughtered a family of 12 - the youngest was a four- day-old baby - when Israeli helicopter pilots fired missiles into their home.

"Shortly afterwards, three Israeli jets dropped bombs only 250 metres from a UN convoy on which I was travelling, blasting a house 30 feet into the air in front of my eyes. Travelling back to Beirut to file my report on the Qana massacre to the Independent last night, I found two Israeli gunboats firing at the civilian cars on the river bridge north of Sidon."

Here are some more links:

http://www.hamoked.org/TopicSearch.aspx?searchmode=cases&tid=sub_1

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/israel3/

http://www.hrw.org/news/2002/05/02/israeloccupied-territories-jenin-war-crimes-investigation-needed

Regarding your "right and wrong" statement, sorry if I misinterpreted your statement. However, I still think it is too simplistic to say that the recent Israel-Hamas fight was still "right and wrong".
Posted by fungus, Friday, 30 November 2012 3:21:37 PM
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I realised later that one of my links to Michael Brull's blog didn't work as some of the web address was accidentally elided. So here is that link in full:

http://home2.iajv.org/taxonomy/term/11/0?page=9

Here is some information about the Peel Commission (yes it's from a memorial website to the Palestinian victims of Zionist ethnic cleansing - an ethnic cleansing which KerryG and Avw claim never occurred):

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Famous-Zionist-Quotes/Story695.html

And here is Norman G. Finkelstein on the Peel Commission:

"Finally, contrary to [what Alan] Dershowitz [claims in his book "The Case For Israel"], the Peel Commission did not envisage that Arabs would "remain as part of the Arab minority in the Jewish state." It explicitly recommended that, if most of the 225,000 Arabs currently living in the planned Jewish state didn't voluntarily leave, "in the last resort" their departure should be "compulsory".

Thus, the Peel Commission advocated ethnic cleansing.

Finkelstein's footnotes for this:

Benny Morris, "Righteous Victims: A History of the Zionist-Arab Conflict, 1881-1999", (New York, 1999), p. 138; "Palestine Royal Commission Report", (London, 1937, p. 391.

Here is Naeim Gilado on Zionist terrorism against Iraqi Jews:

http://nsl-archiv.com/Buecher/Fremde-Sprachen/Giladi,%20Naeim%20-%20Ben-Gurion%20Scandals%20-%20How%20the%20Hagannah%20and%20the%20Mossad%20eliminated%20Jews%20(EN,%202004,%20176%20S.,%20Text).pdf

http://inminds.co.uk/jews-of-iraq.html
Posted by fungus, Friday, 30 November 2012 3:37:42 PM
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KerryG, you write, "It is precisely because the Jewish Army did not deliberately kill civilians, unlike the Arab armies, that there is a refugee issue."

Actually, the Zionist militias DID kill civilians. Plenty of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine
Posted by fungus, Friday, 30 November 2012 3:45:37 PM
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fungus:

“How is Ilan Pappe discredited?”

Ilan Pappe has been exposed as a fraud, distorting historical facts to suit his argument. Have a look here:

http://www.tnr.com/article/books/magazine/85344/ilan-pappe-sloppy-dishonest-historian?page=0,1&passthru=MWE4MzAwYzEwZTUxY2M3Y2VjZWEwODI4NTYyOTZlYmU#

You might not like Benny Morris’s character or his personal opinion, but his historical research is held in high regards.

“Norman G. Finkelstein is hardly an extremist”

Norman Finkelstein, by his own admission, is a communist. You might consider communism as mainstream society, but I suspect most people will not agree with you and view communism as extreme left. Wikipedia cites Communism as a good example of extreme left ideology.

As for the Israeli missile strike that caused a large number of civilian casualties, you originally provided this link as proof that Israel targets civilians. The article does not provide this proof – it clearly states that the Israeli missile was in response to the Hezbollah rockets. The most you can say, based on this, is that Israel does not take sufficient care to avoid hitting innocent civilians. You can (and should) equally (or even more forcefully) criticise Hezbollah (and Hamas) for firing their rockets from civilian areas, with the full knowledge that they place civilians at grave danger from return fire. It is clear they are using this tactic purely for propaganda purposes, with utter disregard for civilian lives.

Regarding the Peel Commission, yes, they did advocate the transfer of Arab population from the newly created Jewish state into the Arab state. The problem when reading this on the Palestinian website is that you only get half of the story. The Peel Commission advocated the transfer of BOTH Jewish AND Arab population to their respective states. This is NOT ethnic cleansing, this is a population exchange, as happened between Greece and Turkey, and later between India and Pakistan. There was no suggestion of any ethnic cleansing in those cases, and there shouldn’t be any here either.

I will look at the links you provided and comment on them when I have some free time.
Posted by Avw, Friday, 30 November 2012 9:46:35 PM
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Avw, on the one hand you say that Benny Morris' political views are irrelevant - no matter how repugnant - because he is a well-respected scholar. On the other hand, you instantly dismiss what Noam Chomsky and Finkelstein - both of whom are well-respected scholars - write because they have radical left-wing beliefs.
You can't have it both ways.

Personally, I do not consider Communism per se to be an extremist ideology. Authoritian Communism, such as Leninism, Stalinism, Maoism and the Khmer Rouge, is definitely extremist. But I do not consider it extremist for somebody to believe that the production of goods and services should be state-owned.

Robert Fisk's article I posted a link to lists a number of Israeli attacks on civilians in Lebanon, not just Qana. Indiscriminate attacks - whether by Hamas or Israel - is unconscionable. Hamas has done it with rocket attacks and suicide bombings. Israel has done it with white phosphorus bombs, bulldozers and cluster bombs.
Posted by fungus, Saturday, 1 December 2012 4:56:04 PM
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Regarding the Peel Commission, I realised after doing some more Internet research, and prior to your reply, that the Peel Commission also recommended transfer of Jews from the new Palestinian Arab country. However, I still stand by my claim that the Peel Commission recommended ethnic cleansing, as it called for forced transfer as a last resort. Mutual ethnic cleansing would still be ethnic cleansing.

Finkelstein's claim about the Peel Commission was not from a pro-Palestinian website. It was from his book "Beyond Chutzpah - On The Misuse of Anti-Semitism and the Abuse of History". The book provides a comprehensive debunking of Alan Dershowitz's book "The Case For Israel". In the passage I quoted, Finkelstein was disproving a particular claim Dershowitz made in "The Case For Israel".
Posted by fungus, Saturday, 1 December 2012 4:56:57 PM
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