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The Forum > Article Comments > Boycotting Jews yet again > Comments

Boycotting Jews yet again : Comments

By Jonathan J. Ariel, published 13/11/2012

The oldest hatred is back. At a café near you.

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To cohenite:

Actually, I did not separate the state of Israel from its people. I separated the state of Israel from the Jewish people. There are many Jews in many countries including Israel who are opposed to the way Israel treats the Palestinians. This website proves it.

http://www.angelfire.com/co4/intl-islamic-res/gateway/Jewish.html

For the record, I do separate the state of Israel from its people. Just because a government is democratically-elected it does not mean that all of the citizens support that government, or all of that government's actions. I do not believe every single American supports everything Barack Obama does, or every single Australian supports everything Julia Gillard does.

I read that article you posted a link to. Not anywhere in that article does Henderson say that Rhiannon supports Hamas. He says Rhiannon will attend a rally opposing Israel's actions in Gaza. Just because one opposes Israel's actions in Gaza that does not mean that one supports Hamas. It is possible to oppose Hamas and still oppose Israel's actions in Gaza
Posted by fungus, Tuesday, 20 November 2012 10:46:45 PM
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To Avw:

My point was not about whether Israel within the 1967 Green Line is an apartheid state. My point was that Israel's Palestinian Arab citizens are not treated as equal to Jews under Israel law, and are systematically discriminated agaist. And regarding the question of whether or not it fits the definition of "apartheid", the Israeli writer Uri Davis argues that it does, and that Israel gets away with it by not having its apartheid as visible as South Africa's was. That is, the situation is how you described - public facilities are not racially segregated as they were in apartheid South Africa. Also, the situation in the Occupied Territories definitely fits the definition of "apartheid".

(Continued below.)
Posted by fungus, Tuesday, 20 November 2012 10:51:32 PM
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(continued from above.)

Regarding what you said about Gush Shalom, here is Gush Shalom's stated aims, taken from its website:

"The primary aim of Gush Shalom is to influence Israeli public opinion and lead it towards peace and reconciliation with the Palestinian people, based on the following principles:

"Putting an end to the occupation,

"Accepting the right of the Palestinian people to establish an independent and sovereign State of Palestine in all the territories occupied by Israel in 1967[*],

"Reinstating the pre-1967 "Green Line" as the border between the State of Israel and the State of Palestine (with possible minor exchanges of territories agreed between the parties); the border will be open for the free movement of people and goods, subject to mutual agreement.

"Establishing Jerusalem as the capital of the two states, with East Jerusalem (including the Haram al-Sharif) serving as the capital of Palestine and West Jerusalem (including the Western Wall) serving as the capital of Israel. The city is to be united on the physical and municipal level, based on mutual agreement.

"Recognizing in principle the Right of Return of the Palestinian refugees, allowing each refugee to choose freely between compensation and repatriation to Palestine and Israel, and fixing by mutual agreement the number of refugees who will be able to return to Israel in annual quotas, without undermining the foundations of Israel.

"Safeguarding the security of both Israel and Palestine by mutual agreement and guarantees.

"Striving for overall peace between Israel and all Arab countries and the creation of a regional union.

[*] This refers specifically to all the parts of former Mandatory Palestine occupied by the Israeli army in 1967 - not to parts of Syria or Egypt."

It hardly seems extreme to me.
Also, after the failed 2000 Camp David peace talks, the PLO and Israel had the Taba talks, but Israel withdrew from them.
Posted by fungus, Tuesday, 20 November 2012 10:54:51 PM
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To Jonathan J. Ariel:

I watched that interview with Chomsky that you posted a link to. For my response, please refer to csteele's answer. She took the words straight out of my mouth.

To csteele:

You wrote, "My dear cohenite you really are a child."
Please do not insult children.
Posted by fungus, Tuesday, 20 November 2012 10:59:16 PM
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fungus agrees with csteele that I am a child; children believe in fairy tales and lie; I do neither; some homework:

Rhiannon supports Hamas because she opposes Israeli defence against rocket attacks; this is self-evident to anyone other than a one-eyed bigot; if fungus thinks Rhiannon is not supportive of Hamas then let him produce a condemnation of Hamas from Rhiannon.

Fungus says:

"My point was that Israel's Palestinian Arab citizens are not treated as equal to Jews under Israel law, and are systematically discriminated agaist"

That is a lie:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Views_on_the_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict#Treatment_of_Jews_in_Arab-ruled_societies_and_vice-versa

"Arab and other minorities are given freedom of religion, culture and political organization. Several Arab political parties have elected parliament members in the Knesset."

Where do reciprocal rights occur in islamic nations?

fungus believes in fairy tales because he believes islamic nations will honour any undertaking to support the right of Israel to exist; I direct fungus to the concepts of Al-taqiyya and Kitman. I direct fungus to the persistent action of islamic nations to threaten Israel and the West.

fungus and csteele are not children but their childish lack of reality about islam is a threat to the rest of us.
Posted by cohenite, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 10:16:26 AM
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fungus:

“My point was not about whether Israel within the 1967 Green Line is an apartheid state. My point was that Israel's Palestinian Arab citizens are not treated as equal to Jews under Israel law”

That is absolutely correct. But… that’s how it should be isn’t it? Contrary to what you are stating, Palestinian Arabs, unlike Israeli Arabs, are NOT citizens of Israel and are therefore not entitled to get the same treatment under law. This difference in treatment between citizens and non-citizens exists in every country that I’m aware of. Are we all guilty of apartheid?

“regarding the question of whether or not it fits the definition of "apartheid", the Israeli writer Uri Davis argues that it does…”

And there are many more writers who argue that it does not.

As for Gush Shalom: their stated support for the right of entry of Palestinian Arabs into Israel is a very extreme position indeed. This will spell the end of the state of Israel and will never be accepted by any Israeli government (regardless of any quota imposed). Gush Shalom is rightly described by the mainstream Israeli media as extreme and radical, the 'lunatic fringe' of Israeli society.
The rest of their stated aims are nothing but window-dressing to mask their extreme views. These ‘aims’ have already been supported to some degree by various Israeli governments in the past.
Posted by Avw, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 9:49:30 PM
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