The Forum > Article Comments > The politics of naming: victims, survivors and plain dead women > Comments
The politics of naming: victims, survivors and plain dead women : Comments
By Jocelynne Scutt, published 1/6/2012The expression 'victim feminism' is attributed to Naomi Wolf and relies upon defining women as diametrically different from men.
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Posted by Squeers, Friday, 1 June 2012 10:31:20 AM
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The whole article is just so disingenuous.
Squeersy's aim is dead-on, It's this kind of gear ''reported experiencing at least one type of controlling behaviour', this 'most commonly' comprising 'name calling, insults, put downs or behaviour that made the woman feel bad'.' ooowww. He made me feel bad. This is a *gender-neutral* behaviour, seen in even the happiest of couples at times, but twisted and contorted in some 'study' to fit the all encompassing male=abuser women=vicim narrative. Posted by Houellebecq, Friday, 1 June 2012 12:12:30 PM
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Men also speak out against crime and violence against women, but perhaps not loudly enough, and obviously not all men, not the perpetrators or the thoroughly misguided. And many in our society, perhaps a majority, are apt to 'mind their own business' or 'not want to get involved' when they witness or have a reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing. We are timid - though that is not always a bad thing, depending on circumstance. Some men deserve a good thrashing all the same, but taking the law into one's own hands is frowned upon these days - as is chastising an unruly child or a misbehaving youth. Nonetheless, speaking up about witnessed transgressions should be encouraged, if not outright demanded of every responsible citizen.
Unfortunately we have an imperfect society, including visions of women (or 'girls' mostly) behaving badly - and some of the shenanigans of 'youth' leave much to be desired in the area of decorum and self-respect. To some extent, laissez-faire behaviour can lead to misunderstandings (probably partly motivated by 'wishful thinking' or 'natural urges'), and a poor level of self-restraint and respect for others may then lead to destructive outcomes. Naivety and 'raving' or 'pinging' (whatever that means) make for a hazardous combination. "Growing up' at too young an age, and before attaining true adult 'maturity', does not appear to be serving our society well, and, in combination with a less than modest and 'reserved' example set by adults and 'role models' in some quarters, has bequeathed us many unfortunate and unappreciated consequences - insufficient regard and respect for women unfortunately being one of them, and perhaps insufficient respect by women for themselves. Posted by Saltpetre, Friday, 1 June 2012 2:29:05 PM
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Squeers, well said. Though for a moment that you used to date my ex but she was more prone to a punch at the kidneys.
There are those of both genders who believe that a relationship (or the aftermath of one) should allow them to dominate the other person, to meet their own needs via the other person (and generally with no regard for the others needs). The feminist victim brigade would have us believe that women don't initiate violence (or if they do it's lashing out against an oppressive partner), that women have somehow managed to juggle almost all of the early childhood nurture and child raising in western history whilst having no role in the shape of western culture, that behaviours are controlling when done by a man but perfectly normal when done by a woman. There should be room to speak out about issues that hurt and harm, some issues will impact on one gender more than another but the victim mentality lacks any balance. It only see a problem when it's happening to those who they identify with and are often dismissive of (or supportive of) harm done to others. R0bert Posted by R0bert, Friday, 1 June 2012 8:08:42 PM
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No one has a problem with people who have been very poorly teated seeking sympathy.
The problem here is paternalistic ideas about women that mean that some people see women as victims too easily. For example, it is well understood that most domestic violence is reciprocal and in most cases, on objective judgement, people would say both participants are as bad as each other. However, we socialise people to see male participants as evil wife-bashers and female participants as poor little victims. Another example is the rapid expansion of the definition of domestic violence, sexual assault and sexual harassment. Any heated argument is now dv, anyone who has had sex with someone who was drunk is a rapist and anyone who had flirted with someone who wasn't attracted to them is guilty of sexual harassment. Being too willing to see women as victims is ultimately a condesending attitude towards them that has no place in modern Australia. Posted by benk, Saturday, 2 June 2012 8:03:54 AM
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The first comment in this thread stirred some memories for me because when I made similar observations about the dynamics of interpersonal relations within marriage in my blog post http://iainhall.wordpress.com/2006/11/24/no-to-white-ribbons/ and I then spent a few years being attacked as an excuse maker for domestic violence by various lefties all because I made the argument that the problem is an often toxic dynamic between partners rather than it being just a case of the pernicious nature of the male.
Posted by Iain, Sunday, 3 June 2012 8:41:12 AM
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The fact is that violence occurs in the “tension” between men and women, and while nothing can excuse male violence, it’s simplistic portraying the woman as the passive victim. I and many men can attest that the tension and the violence is often provoked by women, who are by no means passive psychologically—or physically. The “nagging wife” archetype is not a myth and equally deserving of the designation “husband torture”! I recall a girlfriend punching me in the balls once when I was driving at speed, and my reaction was to hit back, though in the rage and pain, of the moment I showed more restraint than she did.
During my first marriage I was often reduced to an incoherent psychological wreck by my wife’s utter refusal to compromise or to let anything just drop. Nor was she averse to violence. I recall many sleepless and debilitating nights when she refused to stop, indeed our marriage was marked by what I can only see now as deep antipathies. Yet when I tried to end it she was the one who was absolutely psychologically dependent and held on to our marriage by every means at her disposal. Why did she not see it was impossible and end it? Why did she need me to get through life?
Women shouldn’t only report abuse, they should refuse to endure it and end the relationship, even pre-emptively. Victim feminism, expecting society to protect them, is abnegation of responsibility. The culture of women mothering and mithering over men must end.