"So, for a rapidly growing proportion of the Indigenous population, most policy measures that may be in place do not affect them greatly, do not concern them, and do not involve them. In a sense, for this population, they have fortuitously striven to go beyond policy, to live and work and love as any other Australians do, free of direct government interference. They have liberated themselves from policy. They live and work and love, as Indigenous people in an open society, an un-enclosed or encapsulated society, in an uncertain world full of promise."

One wonders why these people should really be classified as "indigenous" at all. Surely they should be accounted for as ordinary Australian citizens and just receive the benefits to which the rest of the community is entitled.

In the capitals around 80% of those identifying as indigenous are producing children with those who don't and around 80% of their children identify as indigenous. These are the ones to succeeding in the mainstream. In the remote NT 8-9% of women, my wife being one, and 4-5% of indigenous men have children with non-indigenous partners. The bush is being left out of this rush to acquire the socioeconomic benefits of the mainstream. Our daughter has had a decent education but doesn't speak good Warlpiri. Her Warlpiri relatives are enormously proud of her anyway. Her sons are doing well in school and proudly call themselves blackfellas. A white woman told me that my grandsons should be initiated because that is their culture. For her my wife's culture trumps that of the other three grandparents and she was confident enough to tell me what's best for them. I want them to be men in my culture. I believe passionately in the equal status of men and women, Warlpiri don't. We want our kids to have what city kids can have - a safe and happy childhood, a decent education, a long and fulfilled life. Ignorance of the outside world, dehumanising welfare dependency, horrific substance abuse, interpersonal violence, child neglect and abuse and entrenched poverty are prices too high to pay for the preservation of language and somebody else's idea of what culture is. Will not get what we want for them without the ability to speak, read and write English or if they are taught to believe that violence against women, violent payback, forced child marriage are normal and acceptable and that kin have undeniable access to their income and assets. All of this comes with traditional culture. Let's get fair dinkum and be confident and mature enough to discuss these issues openly. The metropolitan based indigenous elites basking in the rewards of life in the mainstream should not allow the romanticising of their people's past to act as a barrier to the bush mob achieving the same benefits they have managed to win.

VK3AUU,

I wonder how many non-Indigenous Australians think like you, that

"One wonders why these people should really be classified as "indigenous" at all. Surely they should be accounted for as ordinary Australian citizens and just receive the benefits to which the rest of the community is entitled."

In other words, once an Indigenous person graduates from university, they shouldn't be allowed to call themselves Indigenous ? They can't be both professional and Indigenous ?

It's up to people what they call themselves. It's called self-identification. Yes, we've got a long way to go in changing attitudes for the better, haven't we ?

Daphrys,

I fully agree with everything you write. Just one note: of the 26,000 Indigenous university graduates, maybe twenty thousand live and work in the cities: only a tiny proportion of them are an elite, or elitist. The vast majority have taken their chances in the work-force, no minders, no special treatment, no overseas conferences - these are indeed the preserve of the elite, particularly amongst Indigenous academics, busy working on their careers and pulling up the ladder.

Yes, there have to be pathways to self-reliance through higher education, all the way, from the lives which people in remote communities have to endure, right up to TAFE, trades and university, for as many as possible. And university and TAFE student support services should be involved in that difficult and long-term task.

It has been relatively easy for 'southern' graduates, since their first language (for the past 150-200 years) has been English, since there have usually been hard-workers in their families going back into the nineteenth century, and since they have had access (at least for fifty years) to standard secondary education. The big job still has to be done.

All the best to your wonderful family, Dave.

Cheers, Joe

"In the capitals around 80% of those identifying as indigenous are producing children with those who don't and around 80% of their children identify as indigenous."

These are the ones I am refering to Joe. Go back and read the bit that I quoted. I wasn't saying anything about the professionals. I agree with daphrys. It must be very difficult to remain true to your aboriginal culture once you have become educated and absorbed into mainstream society because the traditions that you have been brought up with often run contrary to the mores of the white society. I might add, that it is probably no more difficult for aboriginals than it is for muslim immigrants.

David

Well, David, Indigenous people can walk and chew gum at the same time, like anybody else. The tragedy for most of us Anglos is that we come from a monolingual, monocultural island, and have set up what we think is a monolingual, monocultural society, so we tend to think that monolingualism and monoculturalism are the natural forms for society. But it's not necessarily so: we can all be multi- or at least bi-lingual, and bi-cultural at the same time. Most non-Anglo immigrants have no trouble with that.

Becoming fluent in a 'western' cultural set of mores is not necessarily inconsistent with holding onto one's original cultural mores and practices. Daphrys' daughter seems to have had little trouble doing that, and the vast majority of Indigenous graduates have little difficulty moving in both worlds, if that is what is required. It's not either/or: to either stop walking or stop chewing.

Certainly, one influences the other, but ask any immigrant, if you know any. But how many times have we heard - if we listen - about migrants who come out with not a word of English and within a few years they are top of their class, or dux of their school ? Yes, that HAS happened with Indigenous people too.

And of course, for most Indigenous graduates, from the urban areas where most Indigenous people live, whatever they do is an Indigenous thing to do: they don't categorise what they do along some either-or lines either. Most have lived in a 'western' world for generations.

I guess it's some of us non-Indigenous who have trouble with that. But that's your problem, not Indigenous people's.

By 2020 or thereabouts, fifty thousand Indigenous people will have graduated from universities across Australia, overwhelmingly in standard courses. They will remain Indigenous, just as non-Anglo immigrants have been graduating from standard university courses for years. It's time for Anglos to start to get used to it.

Cheers,

Joe

“The vast majority have taken their chances in the work-force, no minders, no special treatment, no overseas conferences”

Joe, where do you get these figures from ? Are they your own estimation ? I would certainly dispute them !

I am aware that you are deemed some sort of an “authority” on indigenous issues on OLO,
and a lot of it has to do with the "sheer volume" of comments ! And unchallenged figures and statistics !
Of the “vast majority” of 26,000 graduates ( what are we looking at here Joe, 20,000 ? 15,000 ? )

I challenge you Joe, to identify, 100 that “Not” employed because of “Aboriginality” !!

Arthur Bell. aka. bully.