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The Forum > Article Comments > Crucifixes, public schools, and plurality in Europe > Comments

Crucifixes, public schools, and plurality in Europe : Comments

By Pablo Jiménez Lobeira, published 18/10/2011

European Court of Human Rights finds that atheism has no more rights than religion.

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A balanced view of a democratic multi world view society.
Posted by Philo, Tuesday, 18 October 2011 7:50:57 AM
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Well said, Philo. One of the best on-line articles I have read in a long time. Thank you Pablo.
Posted by Ian D, Tuesday, 18 October 2011 8:34:51 AM
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The problem here is seeing religion as a philosophy of life, which it is only to a philosophically oriented few.

For most people, and to churches themselves, it has little to do with philosophy, but rather with telling people how they should live their lives according to dictates from an exclusive clique who claim knowledge of divine intentions.

Churches also make empirical claims about the origins of the earth, the causes of events and the validity of miracles which conflict with scientific method.

For all these reasons, religion is against independent thought, and therefore is incompatible with a true education. Religious education is an oxymoron, and for schools to promote religious symbols is a dereliction of duty.
Posted by Godo, Tuesday, 18 October 2011 8:57:40 AM
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Godo writes

'For all these reasons, religion is against independent thought' And yet I am sure he/she is happy for the ever changing evolution myth to indoctrinate our kids along with the global warming fantasy. No wonder private schools are bursting at the seems. The new atheist religion is more evangelical than most.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 18 October 2011 9:36:58 AM
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A thank you to Mr. Lobeira for taking the time to share his observations. Prof Weiler is a brilliant philosopher and tireless proponent of religious liberty and so conscience and human dignity. Very good news out of Europe that has been the source of so much of the bad kind.

Godo: thank you for your comment. It is that kind of bottomless ignorance that leads to these kinds of expensive legal disputes.

The Catholic Church is not a scientific body. When it teaches it shines it's particular light on empirical data giving to it the Christian meaning that is its duty. Atheists interpret material and social data through the lens of its own philosophy of nature - physicalism. You mean to imply that your philosophy is uncontested which is plainly false.

The scientific method is just that, it has nothing to say about the existence of miracles. An a priori commitment to methodological physicalism of course excludes miracles in principle, even if Jesus himself appeared to you right now, that philosophy would have to do violence to your experience to fit it into its schema. I suspect you hold the incoherent philosophy of scientism http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2010/03/1174

The Church in the West created the first universities, institutions of science, and the anthropology she preserves informed developments in human rights centred constitutions and political economy. Winner of 2010 Royal Society Prize for Science Writing http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Philosophers-James-Hannam/dp/1848310706. What kind of education would excise this understanding of our civilisation? but a politically motivated and culturally destructive philistinism

If you want to understand the philosophy of nature the Church embraces, with its origins in classical Greek philosophy http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2010/09/classical-theism.html

If the enlightenment mythology (a myth of origins and creation) is the story parents want to tell their children fine, but it should receive the historical scrutiny any other mythology receives. For a genuinely liberal and humane education the whole scope of the Western tradition should be handed on as an inheritance to our children.
Posted by Martin Ibn Warriq, Tuesday, 18 October 2011 11:14:05 AM
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Thanks for the article.

In general I would rather the government stay out of decisions regarding religion, it should be a private matter. If it does intervene I would prefer it to err on the side of freedom. Forcing people to hide their religion is just as bad as forcing people to follow one.

Martin Ibn Warriq is a bit harsh criticizing Godo for "bottomless ignorance" based on the previous postings I've read by those on the other side of the fence. This sort of criticism is very minor compared to that dished out by christians against atheists and other religions. I suggest a thicker skin. The word 'university' was in fact created to describe a western institution for higher education, so you are technically correct. However there are many examples of higher education institutions that were not western or christian.

Runner: The theory of evolution continuously changes as new facts are discovered. This means that it is more likely to be correct than previous theories. If we just decided on a 'correct' answer and then defended it forever, then we would be guaranteed to be wrong. Just like the 'creation' myths. You just chose one of many and stuck with it.
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?
Posted by Stezza, Tuesday, 18 October 2011 12:03:34 PM
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