Dear stevenlmeyer,

My article which I referred you to mentioned the burning at the stake of Bruno. I found a Christian website defending the burning of Servetus. I found none defending the burning of Bruno.

However, all the Muslim violence pales in consequence compared to the Nazi Holocaust carried out almost wholly by Christians and the possibly 100,000,000 people killed by various Marxist entities according to "The Black Book of Communism" published by Harvard University. Those murders happened in my lifetime. It is estimated that the US invasion of Iraq has caused the loss of an estimated 100,000 Iraqi lives far more than the casualties of 9/11.

Supposedly every life lost is a universe. There have been many universes. In 1987 a meeting of former CIA men in Switzerland estimated that 6,000,000 will killed by various death squads and other murderous entities under CIA guidance. Who knows how many CIA inspired murders since then?

The twentieth century was a most bloody century, and the twenty-first will probably be another.

Hey, don't drag me into this, stevenlmeyer.

>>Pericles won’t be equating Calvinophobia with racism<<

There are only two things wrong with that statement. One is that I have never experienced, or even heard of, Calvinophobia before. In fact, I am only peripherally aware of Calvin himself, and totally ignorant of his impact on religion.

I suspect that Calvinophobia is something you dreamed up in order to make fatuous comparisons with real life.

The other is that you have never heard me use the term "racism" in relation to any religion. Ever.

Apart from that, fine.

>>Back then I never thought about drawing cartoons of Calvin. Wonder what would have happened had I done so.<<

Something like this, perhaps?

http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/2010/08/28/

Meanwhile, grateful is getting hot under the collar.

>> IF you’re trying to link criminal acts to the teachings of Islam, then please do so: but provide the scholarly evidence! I’m asking you to provide EVIDENCE that supports your statements about my religion.<<

Scholarly evidence, grateful? You cannot be serious. I doubt for one millisecond that a terrorist, blowing himself and everyone around him to smithereens, thought in terms of "scholarly evidence".

But I strongly suspect that his/her burning desire for martyrdom was at least influenced by someone's interpretation of religious teaching.

Certainly, it features strongly in the media releases that follow such atrocities.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2010/09/201093111014874105.html

"Religious violence in Pakistan, mostly between Sunni and Shia groups, has killed more than 4,000 people in the past decade"

Are these acts a) sufficiently criminal and b) sufficiently linked to the teachings of Islam?

They may not be "scholarly". But they would nevertheless appear to be a somewhat compelling kind of evidence, wouldn't you agree?

Grateful

I had read about the murder of Marwa el-Sherbini but did not know she was your sister. I am sorry for your loss. Please accept my condolences.

David f

It’s OK, I understand the rules on the “progressive” (so-called) side of politics. You can only say unkind things about Islam if you say even more unkind things about Christianity / America / Israel whatever. I promise I won’t dob you in if you relax just this once.

Pericles,

Sorry, you’re right. It’s not you who have been conflating race and religion.

For the reasons I explained Calvin is one of my pet aversions.

We have Islam-ophobia and now Catholic-ophobia. See:

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11002

Doesn't every religion deserve its own "ophobia"? And if not, why not?

Mac: << "That's why I say Muslims are special"-this is a ridiculous chauvinistic statement and rather disappointing, but unfortunately indicative of an apparent widespread attitude amongst Moslems. Moslems are not special.>>

This is not chauvinism. Its an opinion which i think can be supported by evidence. If Islam, and therefore the followers of Islam, were not special in the eyes of others then why would so many people be desperately trying to link criminal acts to the teachings of Islam, neglecting to mention that these criminals are targeting Muslims and their Mosques as well as Christians and their Churches. I would be regarded as a kafir (unbeliever) by the extremists.

Muslims are special only to the extent that they follow the Qur’aan, By this criteria all the Prophets were very special people. Their deeds mark them out from the rest of humanity. So those who choose to follow in their footsteps deserve our respect and are special people.

For another example consider how Muslims are able to respond to those who say the Qur'aan is “the ramblings of desert nomads” or as you have said “a collection of contradictory nonsense,a record of the depradations of a desert bandit and his followers and of course, vicious anti-semitism”. Muslims are able to respond with reason and a challenge to the accusers to present their proof. In doing so Muslims would be following guidance of the Qur’aan.

Mac, in my opinion, this feature is special among religions and so i disagree with your statement that Islam is no different from other religions. If you chose to disagree then provide your arguments and do not resort to inflammatory accusations or skadoodle whenever you are asked to account for your statements.

Dear grateful,

Please cite a religion whose followers do not think they are special. In maintaining Islam is special you are like all the other religionists and blind to the fact you are like all the other religionists. Like most other religionists you cherry pick what you want to present as typical of your religion.

Yes, you would be labeled as a Kafir by the extremists. That is also like the other religions. Fundamentalist Christians label those like Bishop Spong who question and try to follow reason as a heretic. The Haredim in Israel regard Jews who don't follow their practices in the same way. Your extremists and the extremists of other religions are interested in neither dialogue nor reason. Other religions have a broad spectrum of views including those who appeal to reason.

Maimonides, the great Jewish philosopher, fled Cordoba to escape the intolerant Muslim Almohads who gave the Jewish community the choice of conversion to Islam, death or exile. Maimonides's family, along with most other Jews chose exile. Eventually he settled in other Muslim domains. When asked how one could show love for God who cannot be physically embraced he recommended that a person should use his divine mind to ask questions. A questioning attitude and the appeal to reason are very much in the Jewish tradition.

In fact there was interaction between Muslim, Jewish and Christian thinkers. With the contemporary Muslim philosopher Averroes, he promoted and developed the philosophical tradition of Aristotle, which gave both men prominent and controversial influence in the West, where Aristotelian thought had not been known widely. Albert the Great and Thomas Aquinas, the Christian theologian, were notable Western readers of Maimonides.

Dear stevenlmeyer,

I agree that Islam should not be appeased, and some of its practitioners are guilty of extreme violence. However, I cite the mass murders of the twentieth century because those with the mindset who committed them still exist and are still a danger. I am also a Jew and aware of those who have done the most damage to us. It is not Islam.

grateful, what's the story?

>>My sister, 32-year-old Marwa el-Sherbini...<<

You're a fibber, aren't you.

Tarek al-Sherbini, Marwa's only brother, was born and raised in Alexandria, to Ali El-Sherbini and Laila Shams.

You, on the other hand, were:

>>...born and bred Australian so please stop refering to me as some alien that is taking advantage of your hospitality.<<

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3924#96564

So I think you owe stevenlmeyer an apology, at the very least, along with some kind of explanation.

It is a very poor show indeed, when he most politely offered his condolences, not to have pointed out that his sympathy was better directed elsewhere.