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The Forum > Article Comments > Can we trust the Greens on population? > Comments

Can we trust the Greens on population? : Comments

By Michael Lardelli, published 20/8/2010

The Greens presents itself as the leading advocate of environmental issues but its policy on population is an apologetic one.

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It is little wonder that Michael is a former members of the Greens. Michael is no orphan in that regard - like Michael I joined the Greens only to be rapidly disillusioned and am now a former member. The Greens are in many ways no different to the major parties all fly a particular ideological flag of convenience be it capitalism, socialism or, in the case of the Greens, environmentalism but there is as much difference between these various brands as there is between different brands of toothpaste.
Posted by BAYGON, Friday, 20 August 2010 12:44:49 PM
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Population is like the weather. Everyone talks about it but nobody does anything about it. Nor will anyone do anything about it, for Michael needs to refresh his memory about some recent history. Back in the 1980s and early 1990s there was some talk about limiting immigration, with the main driver being increasing housing prices. The government agreed that quots should be limited. Quotas went up. Why? My memory of it is that the govt couldn't get anything through the Senate controlled by the Democrats. At the time quotas were perhaps half of what they are now. Okay, so why do the quotas keep on increasing? Maybe Michael could chuck away the lectures on green policy and concentrate on working out why quotas keep on increasing. Then he might be able to work out a way to short circuit that process.
Posted by Curmudgeon, Friday, 20 August 2010 2:08:27 PM
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A very good article although it beats a dead horse in the 2nd half.

Without defending the Greens too much it is important to understand that in order to get a significant percentage of votes the Greens need to appeal to a broad cross section of the population.

I'm reminded of one of the opening scenes of the 70's movie "The Candidate." Robert Redford plays an idealistic lawyer that a major party wants to challenge for the US Senate. Redford's character demands that he be guaranteed that he can continue his idealistic ideas through the campaign. The hard bitten campaign manager says "I'll give you a guarantee" and hands him a slip of paper that says "YOU LOSE."

It takes a lot of people to run a political party. That means moving toward the values of your members on lots of issues. I agree with Michael's assessment that as Labor has moved right, a lot of the disgruntled left have moved to the Greens. That means that some of their policies have taken on a more "social justice" character as Michael points out.

The Greens probably figure they aren't going to lose any votes by having a soft population policy and they might lose some votes with a more definitive (and in my view better for Australia) policy like the Stable Population Party or the Stop Population Growth Now party. If people vote for the population parties, the Greens will probably get the preferences over labor and liberal anyway. Saying that the greens are as conniving as the Labor and Liberal isn't news. It is the way that they have to be, to compete on the big stage.

It is easy for Michael to sit around and say that the Greens are more like the old Labor left. That's true but it isn't going to make any progress in the tough world of Australian politics.

Despite all that, the Greens are still miles better on environmental issues than either major party and if they hold the balance of power, the environment will be better protected than if they don't.
Posted by ericc, Friday, 20 August 2010 2:18:12 PM
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Interesting article on how the Greens have 'lost the plot'.

In their book 'Overloading Australia',Mark O'connor and William Lines claim that the Greens, and other environmental organizations have been influenced more by misguided PC than sound environmental policy. Michael Lardelli's analysis of the Greens' manifesto (and his personal experience) seem to support their assessment.

High population growth is surely a major factor in Australia's environmental problems(and it has an obvious solution )any 'environmental' organization that doesn't acknowledge this is not worthy of the name.
Posted by mac, Friday, 20 August 2010 4:27:44 PM
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Can't trust the greens with anything, they put themselves out as an enviromental party when communist party is a much more accurate term.

and as for labor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41VJISBGi9E
Posted by Angry Oak, Friday, 20 August 2010 5:58:46 PM
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Meh. Michael's apparently an activist who joined the Greens under the misapprehension that they're primarily an environmental party who would promote his population hobbyhorse. However, the Greens have four equally important philosophical 'pillars', namely

* Ecological sustainability
* Social justice
* Participatory democracy
* Peace and nonviolence

As a member of the Greens for some time now, I've seen plenty of people come and go after realising that the Greens aren't there as a platform for their particular obsession. Having said that, I'd like the Greens to formulate a stronger population policy - but the way to achieve that is to participate in the policy process, rather than taking one's bat and ball and slagging from the sidelines.

Any population policy formulated by the Greens has to take into account all four of their philosophical pillars. Unfortunately that's not enough for some people who view population in unidimensional terms.
Posted by CJ Morgan, Friday, 20 August 2010 8:04:48 PM
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