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The Forum > Article Comments > Secularism and religious tolerance > Comments

Secularism and religious tolerance : Comments

By David Fisher, published 26/7/2010

Secularism holds that a personís religious belief or lack of same is no business of the government.

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Secularism can also include religious tolerance - an equal place for all beliefs including non-belief.

The irony of the heresy thing dating from the first century seems to be that the Christian doctrine that has persisted to be current seems to have over-ridden previous Gnostic and mystical stories and beliefs - history being written by the victors, of course.

There is some interesting commentary here too, about the Protestant Reformation rising out of humanism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Reformation#Humanism_to_Protestantism
Posted by McReal, Monday, 26 July 2010 11:18:02 AM
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The author needs to go back centuries in order to draw away the massive amounts of deaths caused by secularism and atheists. Mao and Stalin are just a couple of examples of the millions killed by secular dogma. The number of unborn babies murdered by secularist actually make the middle ages look mild. Yea the religous zealots look very bad until you have an honest look at the secular zealots. The more our secular religion becomes part of the State the more suicide, murder, divorce, pornography, perversion, child molestation etc etc. Looking at the deeds of some wicked religous people certainly seems to give the humanist a blinded sense of their self righteousness.
Posted by runner, Monday, 26 July 2010 11:39:39 AM
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Dear runner,

You need to read the article. Stalin and Mao were no more secularist than you are. They were against separation of religion and state. In their opposition to secularism they were on the same side as you.
Posted by david f, Monday, 26 July 2010 12:00:50 PM
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runner,

I was about to make the same comment as david f.

After Constantine the Pagans were treated savagely by the Christians as heretics.

Besides your comments of contemnation can be readily mirrored:

LAW BANNING ALL RELIGIONS OTHER THAN CHRISTIANITY

"It is Our will that all the peoples who are ruled by the administration of Our Clemency shall practice that religion which the divine Peter the Apostle transmitted to the Romans. According to the apostolic teaching and the doctrine of the Gospel, let us believe in the one deity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in equal majesty and in a holy Trinity. ... The rest, whom We adjudge demented and insane, shall sustain the infamy of heretical dogmas, their meeting places shall not receive the name of churches, and they shall be smitten first by divine vengeance and secondly by the retribution of Our own initiative." -- Codex Theodosianus, XVI.1.2 - Encyclopaedia Roma.

Else put, the Pagans were percuted by the Christains. As mentioned in early threads, many died in internment camps. In some ways, the early Christian zeal was not unlike the Taliban of today, bent on destroying alternative religious cultures.

Who is a heretic and who is an atheist depedends on who is in power and who is asking the question.

Examination of Secularism and Theism requires a helicopter view. David is good at that.

Let's get back on topic.

Regards.
Posted by Oliver, Monday, 26 July 2010 12:29:12 PM
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Dear David,
Though youíve already said elsewhere on the Forum that you donít want to talk to me, Iíve read your piece.

Thanks for the food for thought. Itís worth a further look.

Below is what comes up when you type Calvinís name into the Wiki. (So it is not necessarily my opinion. Itís written by someone else).

ďSeparation of church and state -
Calvin believed that the church not subject to the state, or vice versa. While both church and state are subject to God's law, they both have their own God-ordained spheres of influence. For example, the church does not have the authority to impose penalties for civil offenses, although it can call on the civil authorities to punish them. Conversely, the state is not to intrude on the operations of the church. However, it has a duty to protect the church and its ability to function as the church.
As a magisterial reformer, Calvin thought of the State as a Christian nation rather than a secular government. He did not advocate religious freedom in the same sense as the Baptists later would, for example. However, his ecclesiology sowed the seeds of the modern secular democracy.Ē
Posted by Dan S de Merengue, Monday, 26 July 2010 12:37:16 PM
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Poor Runner, you never seem to realise that you are the Fundamentalist. What do you suggest that we do then. Bring back the inquisition? Perhaps we could burn all the heretics.
I didn't realise that secularism was a religion. Some of the most important corner stones of christianity are compassion, tolerance and understanding. Pity there is none of these existing in the church no matter the faith. These religions fundamentalists spend so much time hating each other and devising ways to take revenge on one another that it is all the rest of us can do to try and stop you destroying the place.
Posted by nairbe, Monday, 26 July 2010 12:39:35 PM
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