Trav

Assuming your data are correct, doesn’t this make it even more important that we should pay taxes? I’m uncomfortable about churches claiming tax exempt status, especially as churches lecture the government so often on the need to spend more.

We should pay our way and contribute to society by paying taxes, the same as everyone else – and as the Bible says we should! (Matthew 17:24-27, 22:21, Mark 12:17, Luke 20:25, Romans 13:7)

Trav,

I was in Apex for five years, where I came across hundreds, if not, thousands of people. I knew only one minister to be an Apex member and no priests. Apex tended to be interwined with Lions and Rotary. We knew each other. Same was true of these organisations. Clergy didn't seem to like operating, where they were not in the leadership role, I suspect.

Likewise, I can recall parishioners mowing our priest's lawn but I never saw him reciprocate or mow a pensioner's lawn. (He was in his forties, I guess).

I also have a mental image of Bob Dywer (or Jack Davies?) dressing up as a "bum" and soliciting money in Hyde Park Sydney. (The idea was give money/prizes to the charitable). On camera, he approached a priest several times and was shunned away.

p.s. Silly priest; He might have received a one thousand pound donation.

Clearly, there are both positive and negative effects of religion on society, and the modern debate on this has only just started. Here's my question: How would Xenophon give weighting to e.g. sex abuse scandals, or mass spiritual awakening? The idea is awesome, the logistics are imposing. So much subjective opinion is involved it would be impossible to be scientific, rigourous, or accountable in the law-making process. Even having a judge review tax-exempt stati is impractical - if Scientology can infiltrate and subvert an entire government department in a Western country - how many religious or atheist judges do you think are out there? And despite judges being trained to set aside personal prejudices - that is only partial effective in achieving objectivity in the court.

Btw, is Max Wallace related to Jim Wallace? That would be funny.

And climate change is not a faith. It is based on serverloads of evidence from a great number of scientists, many of whom are religious. In fact science and religion fit very well together in a lot of cases.
And, a lot of people believe science to be a faith (in which case anything is a faith), it's just one of the more methodical ones.

The positive effect of religion on individuals cannot be ignored. There are very many people who actually experience real spiritual experiences (real to them). Without communal institutional religion there would be a lot more money in tarot card readers, crystal-ball gazing, and many more pseudo-religions. In fact, given our human nature to congregate and socialise, it is clearly inevitable that we come together to share some of life's deepest meanings.

Michael in Adelaide.

You betray a teensy weensy bit of prejudice on your side there...

//Considering the environmental damage and human conflict that is justified on the basis of religious belief today it is obvious that religion is no longer a public benefit.//

If you were not prejudiced, you would have put it rather more broadly.

-Environmental damage. ?
-Human Conflict.

If you were balanced, you would have put that in a context which demonstrated that by far the body count is so uncountably HIGHer for the secular or atheist or communist or combinations of those, inspired human conflict that if you put all the religious conflicts together, they do not even rate when compared.

But as I said.. "IF" you were balanced :)

I guess its time to dispense with St Vinnies, Salvo's and the various others... yes.. let's get rid of them, but I've done rather well from the Salvo's as I prefer to pay $50 for my recliner chairs than $450 in some retail place. Specially when income is a bit dodgy.

I have no problems with Xenophons mention of Scientology as I see zero public benefit from their work.. however I do see massive INCOME benefit for their organization.

"Public Benefit" is a bit subjective, but scams are pretty clear, and in my view Scientology is one. (along with Climate Change/Global warming)

The politics of religion.

Simple! Look after the poor!

Next?

TTM>

David. Good to see you back. A story teller, like the never ending story, man or woman would not see such evil without the understandings of religions. Well p;layed/ Do one more thing for me.

Dont kill this world. Please. EVO.

TT