"If miracles are seen as symbols, the questions about whether they really exceed the powers of nature will appear tired. Their verification demands simply that healings should be beyond our present power to analyse.... It does not demand that scientific reflection will never be able to explain or replicate them."

I may have misunderstood, but this article implies that miracles may not be real but that stories or the idea of miracles are an aid to promoting the idea of a higher being or something apart from the natural human condition.

There is also an implication or premise that no discussion shall thus be entered into because miracles are not only beyond our power to analyse or to verify via scientific means, but that it is unnecessary to do so.

As an atheist naturally, I would not exclude miracles as a subject for discussion or scrutiny?

For some, setting these sorts of ground rules simply opens the door to all sorts of potential charlatans. Cults (even anti-human ones) succeed because of premises like these, in the same way as one might seek hope or understanding via crystal ball readers, tarot card predictions and the like.

The fact is people will adopt the view which best suits their own pre-determined set of beliefs, including atheists who usually demand more science or evidence.

Miracles are an easy target - how does one prove an event was coincidental, or would have occurred in any case without intervention. The author believes these sorts of questions are not necessary.

Perhaps a belief in the possibility of miracles might in some cases fulfill a prophecy similar to a placebo-effect. It could be argued that the human brain is capable of manifesting many 'miracles' in this way which is heartening when it works, disappointing if it does not.

Either way, for the believer it will be God's will. Even as an atheist I can see that human beings seek comfort and explanations of the universe (or death) in various ways, some choosing a supernatural belief which incorporates the idea of miracles may bring hope and even relief.

In some way the sanctification of martyrs reminds me of the war in Iraq. We keep track of our casualties but do not give estimates of the numbers of Iraqis, both civilians and combatants killed.

From my reading of history Christians have martyred many more of non-Christian faiths than vice versa. Muslims and Jews massacred during the Crusades, massacres of pagan Indians, Gauls, Norse etc, who died for their faith. The Nazi Holocaust was an exercise largely by Christians and made acceptable by the centuries of hate for Jews promoted by Christianity.

I don't have an estimate of the numbers of those martyred by Christians, but I think the number would be much larger than the number of Christian martyrs.

Andrew.
I always find your articles so tightly written that at the end I want more. I love the idea of God causing a rent in our enclosed world. That is a lovely key to understanding so much. But I want to ask how God does that, how does he break into our enclosed world to create a new reality? Irenaeus emphasised that God works through the Word and the Spirit. We are also to know that the Spirit is never ex verbum. If we are to be Trinitarian without remainder, then God can only act through Word and Spirit. This seems to me to disallow any act of God directly with the material. If miracles are signs in the context of faith then that context is produced by Word and Spirit and that is surely the end point, that is the miracle, the new creation that rents the enclosed political, religious etc world. So I have a problem with the function of miracles as a sign of the context of faith. It seems to me to be an add-on without function.

The death of the martyrs is quite different and a neglected aspect of the faith in Protestantism. It is a powerful sign of the centrality of faith to life, a centrality without which we wither and die.

Peter Sellick

What has the history of the "martyrs", whether in recent or in ancient times, got to do with living with real humor, clarity and Wisdom in 2010?

Or the understanding of Saints and miracles?

It would be more than wonderful if there were LIVING Saints, Yogis and Mystics performing miracles all over the world on a regular basis.

And not just "catholic" ones.

Miracles which would be completely obvious to everyone in NOW time, and which would not need to be "verified" by a bunch of grumpy old men decades, and even centuries after the event.

Of course the process of "verification" OF MIRACLES is essentially a POLITICAL PROCESS designed to bolster the MYSTIFYING power of the power and control seeking church. Anything that deviates from the teachings of the pretentious worldly fortress of the "magisterium" would of course be dismissed as "heresy".

And quite frankly some (even many) of the "saints" canonized by the previous pope were unfit for human company by any informed definition of human sanity.

As indeed were some/many of the popes.

Google The Criminal History of the Papacy by Tony Bushby.

Any rational thinking human being with even just a trace of scientific understanding would have to see the use of martyrdom and so-called miracles as nothing more than just another religious marketing exercise to promote flagging church attendance numbers and to boost the coffers of the impoverished church of Rome,now struggling to live within the hundreds of billions of dollars of assets and revenues.
The wealthiest entity in the world has long since dismissed the tired, old and impossible-to-maintain charade of altruism as a source of much-needed credibility, developing instead a series of miracles to create the impression that there is some mystical being which is used, as in the case of Lourdes, just to name one of many, to generate a continuing income from religious bric-a-brac. Sadly, the same thing is likely to occur out here in this country if the Romans ever decide to finalise the Mary MacKillop “Make her a Saint” marketing campaign. What politican could ever miss an opportunity to be part of such a religious circus, even regardless of other personal religious predilections
In a realistic way in the 21st century, there is just one way to determine the intelligence or otherwise of people as they jump about worshipping a saint today, proclaiming a miracle here, an absolute miracle there, all under the illusion that there is any God of any colour, shape or mytical proportion able to change the world in any way for good. But, as any rational human being would know, the only definite result of the carefully generated miracles and martyrdoms is a continuance of a luxurious lifestyle for the real beneficiaries of such charlatan activities, the so-called celibate priests as they continue to prosper, as they have done since time immemorial, living off the fat of the land but contributing nothing of any value.

"If miracles are seen as symbols, the questions about whether they really exceed the powers of nature will appear tired. Their verification demands simply that healings should be beyond our present power to analyse or to replicate. It does not demand that scientific reflection will never be able to explain or replicate them."

Translation: It's OK to make stuff up.

The Flying Spaghetti Monster will be SO happy.