Fifty years today (December 2nd 1972), Gough Whitlam and the Australian Labor Party swept to power after 23 years in opposition. "Its Time" was the catch cry of Labor and the majority of Australian voters believed it certainly was time. After years of missed opportunity under Menzies and then a trio of ineffectual conservative PM's, Holt, Gorton and McMahon, Australian's voted for change. Whitlam headed our first truly reformist government since federation, 70 years earlier. The Labor reforists lasted less than 3 short years until the reactionary forces of Capitalism in Australia led by the foreigner owned Murdoch press, and others, conspired to bring down Australia's democratically elected government, along with a not fit for office Governor General in John Kerr and anti-democracy minority conservative politicians led by Malcolm Fraser the democratically elected Whitlam government was infamously sacked by Kerr, November 11th 1975.

The achievements of the Whitlam Government are many and varied, starting with Australia's withdrawal from the American war of aggression in Vietnam and the abolition of conscription, to reforms in education, heath, foreign policy etc etc. They can be read at the following link.

http://www.whitlam.org/whitlam-government-achievements

Gough Whitlam passed away October 21st 2014, aged 98.

The voters of Australia well and truly confirmed the punting of Whitlam by the G-G at the following election.

Ironically, Whitlam's successor, Fraser, turn out to be just as big a lefty as Whitlam, and the two became pally in later years.

I have to admit that, at the time, I sympathised with Whitlam; but the man was no good, and he got his just desserts before he completely wrecked the country. Let's hope we can rid ourselves of the similarly arrogant and dangerous Albanese in as short a time.

Whitlam scraped in with 9 seat majority. Not as popular as the current lefties think.

Whitlam managed to drive Australia to the left, and it has stayed pretty much that way ever since. His drubbing on 13 December - too late for his trashing of the economy - was a thank you for all his "achievements".

Three years of incompetence, chaos, and economic foolishness. All brought about by the stupidity and arrogance of Whitlam.

Dear Paul,

My husband and I were living and working overseas during
the Whitlam years. We didn't come back to OZ until the end
of 1975. However we followed his stint in government via
the American media - especially "Time" magazine which used
to do very good impressive coverage.

It was so good to read about what the Australian PM was trying
to achieve. Our American colleagues were impressed.;
Especially by the government's series of reforms ranging from
the extension of a publicly-funded health care scheme (Medibank,
now Medicare), higher education, a raft of changes in social,
Indigenous and Arts policies, and even establishing diplomatic
links with China.

His government's legacy continues to be felt today - so many
decades after it lost office. The green and yellow Medicare
card in our wallets today is there thanks to him. He introduced
Medibank the ancestor of Medicare. He also introduced needs
based school funding and the abolition of conscription,
land rights, and the list goes on. Our National Anthem was
changed from "God Save The Queen," to "Advance Australia Fair,"
April 8th 1974.

Despite spending less than 3 years in office before being
sensationally dismissed by the Governor-General, Sir John Kerr,
the Whitlam government certainly enacted a series of reforms
including in free higher education.

Have you read Noel Pearson's speech?

It worth a read.

Dear Paul,

Here's the link to Pearson's eulogy:

http://smh.com.au/opinion/noel-pearsons-eulogy-for-gough-whitlam-in-full-20141105-11haece.html

Dear Paul,

Darn - I've made a typo again.

http://smh.com.au/opinion/noel-pearsons-euology-for-gough-whitlam-in-full-20141105-11haeu.html

Dear Paul,

Here's just a few of Gough Whitlam's memorable quotes:

1)

" Vincent Lingiari, I solemnly hand to you these deeds
as proof, in Australian Law, that these lands belong to
the Gurindji people and I put into your hands this piece
of earth itself as a sign that we restore them to you and
your children forever."

(Gough Whitlam formly handed over to the Gurindji people at
Wattle Creek in the Northern Territory title deeds to part of
their traditional lands on August 16, 1975).

2)

"He is lofty and I am eminent."

( Gough Whitlam compared himself to Malcolm Fraser in 1975.
The pair teamed up to join the republican movement in 1999).

3)

" My great objective as a parliamentarian was to dramatise
the deficiencies and devise practical government programs to deal
with them. It was a cause that went to the heart of our way
of life. It seemed to me that if governments could not do
something for the conditions of life through out our nation
there was something deeply wrong with our systems of government
and our national priorities."

4)

"The punters know that the horse named Morality rarely gets
past the post, whereas the nag named Self-Interest always races
a good race."

Hi Foxy,

Thanks for the link, it was good to read Noel Pearson's speech.

1967 gave Aboriginal people equality in name only. The conservative governments, federally and state (read Pearson on Bjelke-Petersen) did nothing to give that equality meaning. It was not until Labor came to power in 1972 and started what has become the 'Black Revolution' in this country to seek justice for a people who for to long suffered at the hands of oppressive regimes.

"Whitlam managed to drive Australia to the left" and be thankful for it ttbn, its thanks to Whitlam that a bloke like you now enjoys a decent pension and universal heath care, and so many other benefits we all now take for granted. Whitlam was not perfect, he made mistakes, but the benefits far outweigh any errors of judgement the man did make.

One can only imagine the state of Australia today if McMahon had been returned in 72 and successive conservative governments had continued to rule to the present day, men like Howard and Abbott, perish the thought! Any traces of modernism by conservatives are thanks to Labor's time in office beginning in 1972. Conservatives are negative and reactive by nature, never positive, never proactive. A question for today, what is Peter Dutton's vision for Australia? I'll tell you, he is gazing into a black hole and sees nothing!

1967 gave Aboriginal people equality in name only.
Paul1405,
I wasn't here then but from what I have witnessed to-date it appears equality was given but the responsibilities that come intertwined with equality have as yet only been accepted by their majority !

the abolition of conscription, to reforms in education, heath, foreign policy etc etc.
Paul1405,
None of the above have proven successful to-date like you et al would like us to believe !
The only people who became better off are those in non-productive industries !

'Equality in name only' needs explanation that won't be forthcoming from the Marxist sloganeers who have very short memories or who weren't around to actually suffer under Whitlam, or vote in 1967. They are about to get a taste of it under Chairman Albanese, though.

Yes Indy. The old benefits without responsibility lark is alive and well; but it applies to all white Lefties as well as some aborigines of the elite sort, including the 100,000 plus characters who suddenly 'found' a connection to aboriginality between the recent Census and the previous one.

Victimhood is a powerful thing these days, and even more so with race thrown in.

As for the faux abos wanting to get on the bandwagon, genuine aboriginal Australians, including some now in Parliament, are calling for the government to crackdown on the fraudsters. But, so far, Chairman Albanese isn't listening to their 'voice' - to Parliament or actually in Parliament.

Instead of this race-based Voice, we should get rid of the race-based bureaucracies already in existence and demand personal responsibility; stop handouts; require kids to attend school, and provide opportunities in regional areas for all people, – regardless of race.

The big stand out of Whitlam vandalism is Big Government. Australia was a small government country before him. It could be said that the line of drongos since could have made cuts; but once people are getting something for nothing, it is not easy to take it back. That's Marxism for you - Socialism, if you like to fool yourself that there is a difference.

Marxism? Socialism? Self-Interestism? Conservatism?
Narrowmindedism? Ignorantism? Close-mindedism?
Stupidism, Simplisticism?
So many "isms" to choose from.

Was Gough Whitlam good or bad? Was Malcolm Fraser right
or wrong? Was John Kerr weak or strong? To an ever small
number of still lingering ideological "warriors" a
simplistic frame still continues to cast every aspect of
a complex history in pure black and white terms.

But, like all good stories this one is less obvious and
actually far more interesting than these easy questions suggest.

Whitlam is neither a saint nor a sinner. but an exceptional
reformer, whose term in office both as a leader of the
Labor Party and as a Prime Minster changed Australia.

Gough Whitlam who died aged 98 - sits in an unusual position
between enduring controversy and belated recognition. There are
those who see him as an "elder statesman" and to others he's
the unrepentent leader of the "worst government in Australia's
history."

However, even those who deplore the nature of his government's
reforms - like the IPA (Institute of Public Affairs),
- would today dispute the fact that any other Prime Minister
changed Australia more than Gough Whitlam.

The IPA has acknowledged that fact.

For Gough Whitlam politics was, as his biographers have pointed
out, - both passion and practicality. He brought passion to a
reformist vision and practicality to its detail. Although
its implementation - which was ambitious was not always
successful.

Whitlam, we're told saw Australia as an independent state
subservient to neither Britain nor the US. He was determined to
change the face of modern Australia.

We shall have to wait and see if Whitlam's legacy continues
with the current government. A good start has been made thus
far. Will it be allowed to continue? The Australian voters
have made their feelings clear. The old "attack dog," attitudes
no longer work. Nor will they any longer continue to be
acceptable.

Hi Foxy,

I was a young member of the ALP in 1972, aged 19. Refused a vote by the Conservative government who had seen fit to conscript young men to die in their atrocious war in Vietnam, yet at the same time were refusing those same young Australians the right to cast a vote for the political leadership of that very country they were supposedly defending, utter rot of course. Something Whitlam did change in 1973 was to lower the voting age to 18. The late 60's, early 70's were years of great social change, the status quo was no longer acceptable to many thinking people, they were demanding a change to the social order, minorities such as Aboriginals, gays, women, the young workers and migrants were demanding change and like Aboriginals today a strong voice in their own affairs. The demands for equality and justice were growing ever louder, and the election of the Whitlam government was a reflection of those demands.

I read the comments of the likes of ttbn and the like minded, and they reassure me I was right then, and still right today.

Apart from destroying PNG the one standout thing that Whitlam proved beyond all doubt is that Ideology is the most dangerous thing in human activities.

He proved that it will always fail when logic & practicality is what is required, but are ignored.

Dear Paul,

Although my husband and I were out of Australia at the time
of Whitlam - both of us coming from a very conservative
background - were greatly influenced by American politics
of that time. American politics opened our eyes and we both
began to question so many things that we had been taught
to believe. A habit that is still with us today.

The kangaroo court ending in the censuring of Scott Morrison would not have occurred if the 'new Whitlam' was feeling confident of his abilities. The petty, childish waste of time had no effect on Morrison, who is still smirking away on the back bench, and refusing to apologise. Acknowledging that "unintentional' offence was caused to "those who were offended" ain't no apology - as "I have no intention now of submitting to the political intimidation of this government, using its numbers in this place to impose its retribution on a political opponent" indicates.

The electorate, concerned about the cost of living and sky-rocketing power prices due to Labor climate hysteria and Albanese's lie about reducing power prices, put Morrison out of their minds straight after the election. They dealt with him at the ballot box. Too much more of the revenge business will have them dealing with Albanese in the same way in two and a half years time - if he doesn't do a real Whitlam before then, requiring the Governor General to step in.

Morrison has things that he should have apologised for, but this nasty little waste of Parliamentary time on rubbish of no interest to the people paying Albanese's half a million dollars plus wage is not one of them.

Show trial antics have no place in Australia. We are not like China - yet.

We should not have to create laws to prevent Australian
leaders from trying to grab power. We have Prime Ministers
not Presidents. This is not America.

Our Prime Minister Antony Albanese sought legal advice before
proceeding on what was an unprecedented thrashing of our
democracy.

Scott Morrison's political career is now over.

Coming, as I do, from a real Labor background I’m proud of the fact that I actively campaigned against Whitlam.

Whitlam, with the help of Leftist Nugget Coombs, was also the greatest blight on indigenous communities.

What followed those two fool's decisions has been decades of poverty, alcoholism, domestic violence, child abuse, pornography, crime and misery.

Whitlam would have loved the Voice

Was Gough Whitlam good or bad? Was Malcolm Fraser right
or wrong?
Foxy,
They were simply not competent enough because they were nothing more than a reflection of the voters !

You've got to give it to the hard right haters, they never give up.

"Coming, as I do, from a real Labor background" being a member of the National Socialist Workers' Party, is hardly a real Labor background. Issy what motivated you to "actively campaigned against Whitlam" was it because he stopped the senseless killing of young Australians in Vietnam? Its a pity there wasn't a Whitlam around at the time of the Korean War, could have saved a few lives there as well.

From the number of rabid neo-conservatives posting here I get the impression that many either weren't around or are too young to remember Australia during the pre-Whitlam era - media commentators included.

I saw an example of their thinking on TV a couple of nights ago.

Rowan Dean (aka "The Talking Pikelet") was insisting that anything that is given for free - University and Medibank in particular - automatically becomes worthless. Strangely he didn't mention other items like public schools, hospitals, roads, police and so on but in the end his agenda was clear.

People like him want the country to be populated by worker drones who know their place but are ruled over by privileged, wealthy and entitled elites. How they must long for the days of the white pocket fence when women and blacks knew their place and knighthoods could be bought in exchange for political favours.

I forgot to include that despite myths to the contrary, Whitlam did not leave the country with a huge deficit. That honour went to Malcolm Fraser and his Treasurer John Howard, that record later to be repeated by Morrison and Frydenberg,

Even back then Whitlam spoke of "buying back the farm", the notion that Australia's resources should be owned by Australians for the benefit of Australians. That was Whitlam's real crime, he wanted to put Australia first, and not kowtow to the foreign opportunists in big business. Just as Trump claims to have an agenda to make America great, Whitlam had an agenda to make Australia great, but without the Trump style hate and bigotry.

From some comments here, its easy to see how some are easily led by lies and misinformation. One suggesting Whitlam was responsible for today's plight of Aboriginal people, when in fact it was Whitlam who initiated real change for our first Australians. Born a dog, always a dog!

Whitlam's legacy is what we've been living through for the past 50 years with & now we have the Woke as well !

Whitlam ran a chaotic government: wages went up 28% in one year; inflation went up to almost 20%. 'Whitlamite' was a term coined by Bob Hawke to describe any suggestions for big government and big spending. Jobs, businesses and savings went down the gurgler.

Australians hated the man, and expressed their feelings at the election following his dismissal. I was 30 years old at the time (not too young to remember) and I can still hear the nasty, sarcastic bastard sneering, "May God save the Queen, because nothing will save the Governor General".

Nothing saved him, either.

Chaos, economic foolishness, stupidity, profligacy and arrogance is what I remember about Whitlam. And, I'm afraid, we are going to see something similar in Comrade Albanese. Whitlam referred to his gang as 'comrades' often, in keeping with his left Fabianism.

ttbn,

Your characteristic fanatical disgust for the "communist" Albanese government would indicate to any reasonable person reading your diatribe on the Whitlam government that it should be taken with a liberal amount of scepticism, as a far right extremist your take lacks credibility.

I can say Whitlam made mistakes, but on balance the positives outweighed the often distorted negatives. Pray tell ttbn, in your opinion when did Australia have a good government, or are you still waiting for the new messiah like you though you had in Corny Banana.

Dear Paul,

Did you watch the "Insiders" this morning?

It certainly has been a tumultuous year - but
look at what the current government has achieved
in the short time it's been in office! And there
will be much more to come. I am so proud of
their successes to date - and I truly believe that
Australians will vote for what matters. A Voice
to Parliament will pass. Because it would be
un-Australian not to pass such a fair request
from our First Nations people.

We have a lot to look forward to in the coming year.
I am pleased that Australians are realizing that it is
time to have laws put in place that cut through
the stubborn scum that we have in our parliament.
Changes need to be implemented to ensure that transparency
and accountability are part and parcel of our democratic
system.

Thanks to the Albanese government this will be done.

it would be
un-Australian not to pass such a fair request
from our First Nations people.
Foxy,
I go along with that however, when that stuff starts hitting that fan, will the requests to put a stop to the inevitable corruption also be un-Australian ?

Indy

You go along with the lie that the descendants of aboriginal Australians 'requested' a Voice to Parliament? That doesn't sound like you.

indyvidual,

Give it a chance. It will be monitored and legislated
by the government. The Voice is only an advisory body.
Which is not a big ask really - especially as it only
concerns policies and programs that apply to our
First Nations people. Who by the way were all consulted
around Australia.

The most important thing with the Voice is to keep
cutting through the political lines and barriers and
emphasizing the fact that these are largely fabrications.
The genuine reality opposes the fiction.

If we compare the sitting works of Parliament during
the Morrison government - it was something that the
Morrison government endured. In stark contrast the
Albanese government has jam packed each sitting
session with an agenda of bills.

Over all the Albanese government is finishing its
parliamentary year feeling pretty good about itself.
And so it should. While the Opposition must seriously
be under no illusion of the huge size of work it's got
ahead of itself - especially with the Nationals
creating problems.

Albanese summed things up rather well: "This is just
in our 1st six months. I look to the next six months
and beyond."

As do we all!

"Good lord, how can intelligent and rational human beings not see the custom-built racism on which the Voice concept rests?" asks political and social commentator and author, Andrew L. Urban. ('A belligerent Voice?' 30/11/22).

Is the Albanese government not being racist by assuming that aboriginal Australians all think alike, vote alike, "solely because of their race"?

Urban correctly describes the attitude behind the Voice as "unmitigated racism".

Urban gives his own prescription to solve the problem, but the 'well meaning fools' won't be interested, and the rest of us know what should be done, and should have been done, long ago.

The Voice will be put up; we don’t know which way it will go; but, if the referendum passes, the problems and belligerence will continue, without anything being achieved. Just like ATSIC, that other you beaut circus established by Labor.

"the Albanese government has jam packed each sitting session with an agenda of bills." Foxy

“That government is best which governs least” Thoreau

The great disaster for Whitlam and Australia was economic. Whitlam himself had admitted to being an economic illiterate, thinking such issues were best left to lesser beings.

Whitlam and indeed the whole of the ALP had spent the previous decade pondering how to redistribute the results of the great economic boom of the 50s and 60s. They understood little and cared less how that boom and wealth had come about and therefore assumed that it would just continue by magic.

Unfortunately for them they came to power just as the boom was coming to a shattering halt and they didn't have the faintest idea what to do about it. Incompetent treasurers like Cairns and Crean closed their eyes to the problems and continued to spend. Government debt, which had been declining since 1946, exploded.

Inflation ran rampant to levels that today seem impossible, reaching 17%. Wages grew even faster since the Whitlam government was disinclined to put any brakes on union power. This, predictably, ushered in a period of stagflation.

Whitlam had promised to grow the economy by 6-7% but instead didn't even achieve half of that.

The bungled tariff cut destroyed jobs and industries throughout the economy, a blow from which we never recovered.

The true legacy of Whitlam is that his government showed the vastly better Hawke government that unthinking reformism cannot be divorced from economic realities. Whitlam never learned that but Hawke absorbed the lesson.

mhaze,

Henry David Thoreau was an American abolitionist who was
a strong believer that government was unjust. As a result
he did not pay some of his taxes and was thrown in jail.
Upon leaving prison he wrote "Civil Disobedience" as a
means to educate readers on the corruption of government.
He believed that Americans have a right to revolt against a
government which they feel is unfit to govern.

Thankfully this is Australia, not America.

Thanks for the history lesson, Foxy. But since I mentioned him you might guess that I know more than a little about him....a lot more than a 40 second Google search will reveal.

For example, even though Thoreau wrote the words in the quote, he said it was a long since established truism rather than his original thought. So his background is rather superfluous. Except if you're trying to find some way to discredit something you'd prefer wasn't true and can't find a valid reason to do so, in which case you've done the exact right thing.

mhaze,

The quote that you attributed to Thoreau is not his.
Perhaps you don't know as much as you think you do.

Perhaps you might actually benefit from a 40 second Google
search? Although I suspect in your case it might take a bit
longer.

That doesn't sound like you.
ttbn,
I did say; the inevitable corruption

Foxy,
The genuine reality opposes the fiction. Other way round will be the case.
Or, don't you check on the characters putting up their hands for positions ?

The Whitlam years were during a time of global inflation and a global fuel crisis, similar to what we face today.

A difference is that the "buying back the farm" concept was not only abandoned by Fraser but following governments have sold off almost all of what was left (mostly to other countries) so it will be interesting to see how we fare.

Hi Foxy,

I did watch 'Insiders', interesting that a journalist would say there were weeks in the Morrison government when nothing would happen. The good thing the Albanese government has going for it, is the fact the ratbag conservative press headed by the Murdoch organisation no longer has the influence with the voting public it once had. No longer can the media barons of yesteryear hold sway and determine the outcome of elections as they did in the past.

Hi Indy,

Surly you know the difference between a system of direct aged welfare payment of tax today and pay today, and a sustainable national superannuation scheme, when today's investment gives tomorrows returns.

A well managed national superannuation with a safety net provision for unfortunates such as yourself who could not contribute for one reason or another is sustainable, and will deliver far better outcomes for all.

Foxy informs "The quote that you attributed to Thoreau is not his."

Well he did actually write those words but he acknowledged that he was paraphrasing others. Even though I mentioned that above, Foxy thinks she's discovered something new!!

mhaze says "the sky is blue". Foxy informs that mhaze needs to do more reading because, in fact, the sky is blue.

_____________________________________________________________________

But this is all beside the point, which is where Foxy spends most of her time.

Foxy claims here that the current government is a good government because it has passed so many bills. She has, in the past, made the same claim for the disastrous Gillard government.

What Thoreau was saying is that governments making new laws isn't an indication of good government. The opposite in fact. It's a nuanced, subtle and thoughtful view that seeks to free man from the oppression of government.

But Foxy doesn't do nuanced or subtle. And as for thoughtful.....

So what to do? Well ignore the message by attacking the messenger. Standard operating procedure for Foxy.

Hi mhaze and Foxy

As all laws were once new, then by extrapolation all laws must be bad. The idea that government is simply always oppressive is untrue, good government serves the people it does not oppress them. Thoreau would not be the first to believe government is bad based on his own personal grievances.

Dear Paul,

Well said - Thoreau was arguing for the outright
abolition of government rather than just small
government.

mhaze,

http://washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/09/06/who-first-said-the-best-government-is-that-which-governs-least-not-thoreau/

Wow Foxy, I had already advised that Thoreau himself said it wasn't his original thought. Yet you continue as though you need to prove it. We all know this is just so you can avoid the substantive issue - that merely counting the number of bills passed isn't a way to measure the success of a government.

But when that's all you've got.....

I'm surprised at you Paul. Didn't your gurus Lenin, Trotsky et al argue that the final aim of communism was to have the government wither away

mhaze,

Perhaps you need to re-interpret your information.

Keep trying though.

mhaze,

We measure the legislative output of all Australian
governments and PMs by polls, both of opinion, and at
the ballot box, the state of the economy, but the best
way is the ability of a government to pass legislation.
It offers a quantative measure of a government, political
party or a PM.

Someone that gets a lot of legislation passed is usually
considered to be good at getting things done.

And in only six months the Albanese government has certainly
managed to get things done - unlike the previous government.

I know and understand little about politics. But what I do know for sure, in 1983 a contingent of police were sent to Pine Gap, me among them, to help quell a large demonstration of women (circe 3700) who were set upon entering that facility and 'exposing' it's use for its so called, US Nuclear War.

And you got it, it was very much an initiative of the Labour Party, led by the illustrious Dr. Jim CAIRNS and his then girlfriend, Junee MAROSIE (sic). Together with a group of hardcore women, well used to disruptive and injurious behaviour, recently from Greenham Common, the US Nuclear Strike Base in the UK.

Extraordinarily we ask the Americans to help defend us pursuant to the ANZUS Treaty, yet on the other hand. we allow these troublemaking women entry permits to Oz, so they may cause no end of mayhem. My role, by arrangement with all Commissioners, was the training officer of all police represented (NTPOL SAPOL; & the AFP.) Only police women could search women, upon arrest unless special circumstances exist. And exist they surely did.

Secreted in pockets, underwear and against the genitalia, we discovered all manner of covert weaponry, eg. upright (dirty) syringes, razor blades, small knives, sharpened lengths of barbed wire, much of it dipped in faeces. And with temperatures reaching into the high thirty degrees, it really was offensive. Worse still, all of which was calculated to either harm or embarrass police in the execution of their (very unpleasant) duty. They were just doing their jobs! Unfortunately many of these young police were women, asked to do a very dirty, vary hazardous duties. I admired them greatly.

So much for the late Mr Whitlam's bleats of it being un-Australian and allowing his Labour red-necks (Dr James CAIRNS) to run around with gay abandon.

Dear O Sung Wu,

I'm not familiar with Jim Cairns or his political actions.
So I can't really comment on the horrific events you've
described. I'm sure that there would be numerous people who
think that "crime" is what the Labor Party and the "Green
Extremists do - but never the Liberal Party.

I guess it all depends on who you support as to how you're
going to judge someone's behaviour. It something has
occurred on the Liberals 'watch it's usually "administrative
glitch" or an "organisational anomaly."

A Somalia woman raped and made pregnant on Nauru is an
"administrative anomaly," not a crime. What happens on
Nauru, stays on Nauru.

The killing of Reza Barati by white persons was an
administrative "malfunction." As were the 60 other injuries,
a throat cut, an eye blinded, a number of heads bashed with
iron bars, and the list goes on.

The moral bankruptcy is quite startling. Of course this type
of behaviour should not be tolerated no matter where it occurs
and by whom. This awful mindset amongst any leadership
needs to be looked at and corrected. Heads should roll, and jobs
should be lost. Our political leadership should be made up of
men with keen consciences.

Lucky for us our current PM appears to be a man of a keen
conscience.

my apologies - I meant to say that our leadership should
be made up of people (not just men) with keen consciences.

Well, at least those women weren't the BABY KILLERS OF VIETNAM! Which Dr Jim Cairns vehemently opposed.

"I'm surprised at you Paul. Didn't your gurus Lenin, Trotsky et al argue that the final aim of communism was to have the government wither away"

mhaze,

Since they are not my gurus, a backhanded way again of accusing me of being a communists, I don't know what that pair of Bolsheviks thought. Didn't your folk hero Hitler believe in "big government", after all you can't exterminate millions without the apparatus of "big government". Agree?

Foxy wrote:

"We measure the legislative output of all Australian
governments and PMs by polls, both of opinion, and at
the ballot box, the state of the economy, but the best
way is the ability of a government to pass legislation.
It offers a quantative measure of a government, political
party or a PM."

I was going to ask Foxy for evidence that the Albanese and/or Gillard government passed more legislation that others, but realised the futility of that.

So I did it myself. Results:

Gillard - legislation passed per year - 24.3 bills
Albanese -legislation passed to date (10) annualised - 17.1 bills
Abbott - legislation passed per year - 25 bills

So clearly, using Foxy's claims, Abbott ran the best government.

Stand by for explanations that "the best way [to measure a government] is the ability of a government to pass legislation" except when it comes up with the wrong answer.

mhaze,

Are you serious?

How long has the Albanese government been in power compared
to the others, including Abbott's?

Your desperation to be right is looking silly.

mhaze,

Well said; although it will have little effect on Foxy, who seems to be departing from reality more and more lately. She makes claims that lots of legislation equals good government (totally daft, of course), then buzzes over your logic to say Ockernese has been in power as long as the others!

She's fond of regaling us with her health issues, but there might be one that she isn't aware of, and never will be.

Whoops. Who am I to talk. I left 'not' out.

ttbn,

More personal attacks?

Try a different tactic.

Foxy,

As I thought, the maths went over your head.

I took the number of bills and divided by the time in power to get a number per year. For Albo I took the number of bills passed in the first 7 months and annualised it (ie 10 bills / 7 months x 12 months).

Let me know if that's too complex for you.

You were the one swooning over how much Albo has done but now claim he hasn't had enough time to do much.

About what I expected.

mhaze,

There, there!

Keep on trying. You may get there yet.
Look who's support you already have. Now
That's something to be proud of - right?

So Foxy, you've been declaring up-hill and down-dale that numbers of bills passed was the critical issue even though you had no idea if Gillard and Albo had passed more bills than others.

Then when presented with the actual data, rather than re-evaluate your assertions (claims without evidence) you simply try to avoid the issue. Very Foxy.

Still I suspect we won't be getting those anti-factual claims from you any longer.

mhaze,

You seem to have totally missed the point that was
being made. That Albanese in his short time in
government achieved so much more. In any case I don't
mean to be rude, but I have to stop you there, and
get back to someone who actually knows what they are
talking about - Thanks for understanding.

In any case with you it's always an uphill battle
because you always need to re-interpret your data.
Typically mhaze.

Yes Foxy I get it.

The data shows one thing but you want it to be otherwise and that's all that matters. The truth runs second to what you want the truth to be.

mhaze,

You're only concerned about your version of the truth.
Therein lies the problem. Just as you were regarding,
Porter, Pell, Trump, et cetera. Nothing will ever change
as far as you are concerned. And for that reason you cannot
ever be taken seriously. But that's all right - it is a
cultural thing. You can't help it or won't.

There aren't versions of the truth. There is the truth and there is whatever you write.

By the way I went back and checked and the Abbott government passed more legislation in its first 7 months than Albo passed in his.

Just another truth you'll have to ignore.

mhaze,

The Abbott government had fewer bills finalized in
its first 700 days in office than any other federal
government over the same time - according to the Sydney
Morning Herald. According to the Guardian - Abbott's
government was the least productive. The worst federal
government ever. No wonder it got kicked out.

You can argue all you like - but the facts and the truth
not only speak for themselves - they downright shout!

I think that for your own benefit - it would be better for
you if you saved your posts for kindred spirits on this
forum. People like - ttbn, indyvidual, Is Mise, shadowministe
Armchair Critic, Yuyutsu, to name just a few.
You have no cred and I'm no longer
interested in your opinion.

mhaze,

Do you by any chance have brown eyes?

I suspect you have.

You're so full of it!

When I criticised Foxy for liberally abusing others by calling them 'assholes', she contritely advised..."We can all do better
if we try can't we?"

Seeing her latest post, the answer seems to be that some indeed can't do better.

mhaze,

But I have done better. I've kept it polite. Just
told the truth as you asked.

Foxy,
You frequently refer to the people deciding, so why do you have a problem over their decision to get rid of Whitlam?
In the dismissal of Whitlam and his being sent into Opposition by the electors the system worked perfectly.

For anyone really interested in the defining moment of
the Whitlam dismissal and in his legacy the following
link from the National Museum of Australia is worth a
read:

http://nma.gov.au/defining-moments/resources/whitlam-dismissal

Foxy,
The link is coming up as “Not Privare” and my computer warns against opening it.

Is Mise,

How odd. I've just tried it again, and it works fine.

Here's the link again:

http://nma.gov.au/defining-moments/resources/whitlam-dismissal

Thanks Foxy,

Your link is factual, and a true account of events of the times. Things that were considered radical then, are everyday occurrencs today, universal health care, women's rights, social justice etc etc. The good thing about the election of the Whitlam government was it broke the nexus in Australia created by years of conservative do nothing government. The march of change has been stalled at times by the election of the likes of Howard and Abbott, but generally forward progress is being made, slowed by the Morrison government, but given renewed vigour by the election of the Albanese government.

Dear Paul,

I watched the news early this morning - heard Penny Wong,
and what is being attempted with Japan. I can't express
my admiration of the way our current government is
negotiating things both internationally and domestically.
They're listening and it seems choosing the best options
available to them. A new sense of government that we
can only wish them all the very best to succeed.

I am so very proud of the work that they are doing!
With these politicians it's not about power - or their
careers, it's about making a difference! The Whitlam
legacy lives on!