Two days after the Albanese/Xi meeting, CCP-operated newspaper 'The Global Times', has warned Australia that our "dangerous AUKUS deal" will stir up trouble. It is "clearly a threat to regional peace and security".

What a cheek! China can illegally construct islands in the South China Sea; its leader can tell his country to "prepare for war"; but Australia defending itself from these threats is a threat to peace!

Xi didn't say anything to Albanese about AUKUS. Will he pull his official propaganda rag into line in the interest of better relations? Sorry. Silly question.

The next warning will probably be the recently announced Australian establishment of a $60 million maritime base in China’s favourite Pacific country, the Solomon Islands - that's where they send Chinese police to train SI police to put down democratic protests etc. I think that we have also sent some military grade rifles to them. Or was that China too? The battle for the pockets of the SI Prime Minister gets rather confusing.

The AUKUS defense pact and submarines aren't going to do us any favors anyway.
Either we want to go to war with China, or we don't, and this says we do.

AC

What? We want to go to war with China? You really need to explain that one.

Yes ttbn!

We're going to hit the yellow peril with a shock wave from our Dad's Army Platoon of OLO old fellas under the command of my good forum buddy Corporal Issy, along with Hassy, Indy and other assorted OLO octogenarians, you'll be included. Should that surprise attack fail, god forbid, then Hassy will take to the skies in his trusty old Sopwith Camel and bomb the living daylights out of em! Then again we could always try diplomacy first.

The Chinese are probably just as intimidated by AUKUS as they are by the OLO Platoon. And its cheaper, they all live off aged welfare and their winning from bingo on Thursdays.

The submarines purpose is not to defend Australia, but to defend Taiwan, and are a part of the United States offensive war against China.
If we get them or are part of AUKUS then we get a target painted on our backs.
There's no way Albo and Xi's meeting was as good as they made out.
I notice the coalition straight away called for sanctioning China under the Maginsky act.
http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/birmingham-australia-should-use-magnitsky-powers-to-target-china-myanmar-iran/news-story/1b3c4ccb3d4bd5d52ad7f3ffb39e9bf8

Coalition are going to drag Australia into a war, when China's actions are basically defensive against the West's hostile military build up and actions in their regions.
Taiwan is a recognised part of China under the OneChina policy.
Dutton's screaming, Birminghams weilding global Magninsky lawfare, and even Abbot's been talking about national service.
What's that picture tell you?
- War is coming.

China doesn't want a war they built the belt and road initiative.
The US is going to force them into one, just like it did Russia.
And our boys are going to die for nothing.

None of it will matter, because China won't be defeated on the Chinese mainland.
Even now they are still trying to oust Putin, as a part of their up and coming 'next war' with China.

One thing Ukraine has taught us btw is that manned aircraft are becoming obsolete.
Modern warfare is now about missiles and drones.

AC

"The submarines purpose is not to defend Australia, but to defend Taiwan, and are a part of the United States offensive war against China".

Apart from you, who believes this? Crackpots on Google?

"If we get them or are part of AUKUS then we get a target painted on our backs".

If there is a target, it is already there. China is not going to leave us alone just because we can't fight back. China is a bully.

"There's no way Albo and Xi's meeting was as good as they made out".

Of course.

Joe Biden had 3 hours with Xi; Albanese had 30 minutes, in which very little could be discussed. With the necessary translation of what was said, both men would have spoken for less than 10 minutes each.

Albanese was the little Westerner kow-towing to the great Oriental prince.

"Coalition are going to drag Australia into a war, when China's actions are basically defensive against the West's hostile military build up and actions in their regions".

Rubbish. China is the aggressor.

"Taiwan is a recognised part of China under the OneChina policy".

Not by the Taiwanese it isn't.

Dutton? He is saying nothing; and Birmingham should be in the Greens.

"China doesn't want a war they built the belt and road initiative".

Oh Come on! Xi has told China to prepare for war, and the belt and road initiative is part of their grey war.

Anything else?

The meeting between Xi and Albanese was an important
event and it is good that Australia and China are
once again on speaking terms. But, of course this
does not mean that the great differences between
the two governments will be extinguished or that it
will magically usher in a new era of co-operation.

It's worth remembering that the Prime Minister, the
Defence Minister and the Foreign Minister have all said
the same thing about their engagement with Beijing -
"We're happy to talk but don't expect us to fold on any
core issues."

Australia's and China's interests are not aligned.
Beijing and Canberra have radically different visions
of how they would like the region to function over the
coming decades.

Having said that however, it is better to talk than to
fight. And dialogue is preferable to frozen silence.
We know that some differences just can't be wiped away
or negotiated into thin air - and dealing with China
is not going to be an easy task no matter who's in
government. So far the current team are doing a good job
in their stance. Whether this continues we shall have to
wait and see. Hopefully it will continue.

Paul, you might be surprised at what a defensive effort OLOs old timers could put up. Most could still lift a rifle, & we are too old infirm & slow to run away in the face of an enemy, unlike some we could mention

"Apart from you, who believes this?"

Totally agree with you AC, you show yourself to be incisive on matters of China and Russia, thinking outside the square, disseminating the BS from the reality. Unfortunate dear old ttbn simply has taken the bait, hook line and sinker and can do nothing other than sprook American propaganda.

Can anyone show how US militarism post WWII, with Australian involvement has worked in our favour? The disasters in Korea, Vietnam the Middle East and Afghanistan. Xi after his meetings with Albanese and Biden, I would love to be a fly on the wall who understands Chinese, as he tells his flunkies what he really thinks of that pair. What is the Chinese word for bozo?

Paul

You might "totally agree" with AC, but that just makes you as wrong as he is. I don't know what he knows about Russia, but I assure you that he is definitely not "incisive on matters of China"; but, he is smart enough to know you are just having a go at me, not siding with him.

Can you explain to me just what this "bait" is that you say I have swallowed, and just what the "American propaganda" is that you accuse me of spruiking - despite your inability to even spell the word 'spruik'.

You really need to stop ingesting foreign substances into your system before you post.

ttbn, I might not be the world's greatest speller, I don't claim to be. BUT I'm smart enough not to disappear up the arse of a shonky politician as you did. How much did that one cost you?

As for agreeing with AC, the reason is obvious, because he's right, I don't care what you think, you're wrong, so don't put tickets on yourself. BTW why are you responding to my posts, in the past you claimed you wouldn't lower yourself to my level, and others, by responding. There you are responding, a man of his word.

You are either drunk or insane.

What sort of idiot makes comments like:
."old ttbn simply has taken the bait", but can't explain what he means.

."can do nothing other than sprook (sic) American propaganda" and still can't say what he means.

."BUT I'm smart enough not to disappear up the arse of a shonky politician as you did. How much did that one cost you?" with no explanation, again.

."As for agreeing with AC, the reason is obvious, because he's right, I don't care what you think, you're wrong …". The reason is obvious? Because he's right? "Your wrong"? No reasons. No explanation. No proof.

The idiot Paul 1405. That's who.

It really is depressing watching the dumb Albo playing at statesman, being played like a violin by the Chinese. He is so dumb, or perhaps conceited he thinks they are taking him seriously.

If ttbn were to ask me right now if I want nuclear subs:
I'd say 'It depends'.

If we could get nuclear subs and also have a nuclear deterrent (which we wont be getting)
And we didn't have to join a defensive pact and could have our own foreign policy based on Australian not Western interests, I'd say yes definitely.
(problem then being our hawkish leaders)

But being tied to America when it's obvious they aim to escalate and cause a conflict, then the answer to anyone with any common sense should be 'no'.

America does not hold the moral righteousness in these wars.
Expect a lot more defense personnel killing themselves over time and not understanding why they were even in that war.

America does not have the industrial base to fight a war with China.
America cannot ever hope to fight China and win on their mainland.
(But China most certainly could come here)
You want to awaken a sleeping dragon?

US does not have hypersonic weapons, their ships and ours will be at the bottom of the ocean if we send them to fight a war in the Taiwan Straight.

The US uses 1 million dollar missiles to take down $10k drones.
They have fallen behind when it comes to fighting major wars.
Their military is built on profits, not effectiveness in a war of atrition with an equal military power.

The US is strong only when fighting smaller adversaries that don't have adequate air defense.

Now you are talking sense Hassy, why would China take anything an Australian government politician or official says seriously, when they know Australia is nothing more than a subservient lackey of the United States, the most belligerent and aggressive nation on earth. We have no more use to the Chinese other than a supplier of raw materials to their growing economy. Post WWII I believe Australia should have followed a nonaligned course in world affairs, rather than kowtowing as we did to the Americans. If there is a conflict over Taiwan then Australia will be sucked in as cannon fodder by the US in some phoney proxy war they will wage against the Chinese. Previously the price we have paid has not been that great, a few hundred young Australians killed, a few billion dollars on wasted militarism, and some degree of political unrest at home, this time things could be different as China exerts its power directly at Australia, then the warmongers at home might think twice!

[Cont.]
The AUKUS deal and military pact is itself a part of the escalation.
If 'coalition of the willing' partners didn't come together there would be much less chance of the US biting off more than they can chew and starting a war in the first place.

The Taiwanese people 'Republic of China' (since you don't seem to know the history) don't want independence. They have friends and family and employment in China, and most of their goods come from there.

This is about the US looking to drive a wedge and cause a conflict, just as it's doing to many of China's neighbours, because the US doesn't want to give up it's position as global ruler and hegemon.

And the US can't stay global leader forever, it just doesn't have enough people.
Look what it has done to Ukraine 150k dead.
Look at the de-industrialising of Europe, blowing up the Nordstream pipelines then setting favourable tax policies to woo those European industries to the US.

It's willing to eat it's own allies.
You want to be associated with that?
You want Australia to suffer the same fate as Europe?

US shut down the source of Europes wealth, Russian gas.
You want to shut Australia off from imports and exports with China?
That's a dumb as Europe's being lead by the nose.
- But we'd be even dumber than Europe, since we've already seen what's happened to them.

Do you care so much about Taiwan independence you are willing to start a global conflict for it?
(Keep in mind the fate of the Taiwanese will be the same as the Ukrainians, so you wont actually be helping them)

Do you care about it so much you're prepared for Australian cities to get bombed, ADF personnel killed?
Do you want to risk an invasion?

Thank goodness people like ttbn, and their democratically diverse 'klinger-army' will save us.
That's sarcasm, you don't actually think we can win do you?
You want us to play stupid games, what exactly are we going to win?

Stupid prizes are the only thing on offer.

AC

"If ttbn were to ask me right now if I want nuclear subs:
I'd say 'It depends'.

I'm not going to ask you mate. The government - both the major parties - want nuclear submarines, and they are not going to ask you or me. I agree that we should have them. Simple.

All we get to do is have opinions. I've given mine. You have given yours.

That's what OLO is about: opinions. It is unfortunate that nasty little grubs like Paul 1405 and a couple of other posters really hate opinions different from their own, and act like Twitter trash.

Hasbeen

Albanese might be dumb, but worse, he is the furthest Left PM we have ever had: dumb and dangerous.

It looks as though he is going to tear down the borders back to Rudd times, with the Immigration Minister giving a bleeding heart speech in Parliament, about how mean and awful the successful Coalition policy on illegal immigration was. All Albanese said - replayed last night - about support for Sovereign Borders was just another one of his lies.

The Labor nightmare is starting again. And, with the Coalition whipped and useless, too-far Left, we are going down.

Anti-CCP protester Drew Pavlou - not protesting but having a quiet coffee in a Parliament House cafe after a meeting with two MPs - was removed from the premises by (apologetic) Federal Police.

It seems that his arrest at an anti-CCP protest 5 years ago has had him flagged as a 'high risk terror suspect' (as he was described by the Chinese embassy at one stage).

His banning from Parliament House was recorded. But since the publicity, the Federal Police have said that he is not banned, and 'the bosses made them do it'. The police bosses, or the boss of the bosses: the Hard Left Albanese Labor Government?

In the meantime on the floor of Parliament, The Burke has decreed that the Opposition can't ask the Small Business Minister a question about medium business.

And, in the depths of the politicised bureaucracy, the drones have fluffed a simple long division sum, and looked up Google for information on how much a consultant should charge - trying to justify the government's lunatic IR fiddling.

Will the country survive another two and a half years of Hard Left Labor? Is there any chance that the Opposition might get the balls to save us after what promises to be a horrible regime of extremism and incompetence

On the topic of the Albanese Hard Left Government interfering in industrial relations and forcing wage increases on small businesses that cannot afford them, a Productivity Commission report reveals that economic growth and income per person over the past decade has slipped to its slowest rate in sixty years. Moreover, the wealth of the top 20 per cent of Australians has grown 68 per cent in the past fifteen years compared to six per cent for the bottom 20 per cent.

And, we now know that it is the top 20% that is 'woking away' the most for the Left.

Ukraine strikes its own city with U.S-made missile; Blames Russia later
http://youtu.be/Gd1d-BLboeE

The missile fired was an AGM-88B Harm Anti-Radiation missile

Price ranges between the AGM-88A and AGM-88E
(US$284,000 - US$870,000)

http://www.australiandefence.com.au/news/raaf-growler-weapons-sale-approved
The US State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale (FMS) to Australia for AGM-88B HARM anti-radiation missiles at a cost of $US137.6 million.

http://mezha.media/en/2022/08/25/2-9-billion-for-weapons/
Pentagon specified the composition of the latest package of military aid, announced by US President Joe Biden during a speech on the occasion of Ukraine’s Independence Day. The cost of one NASAMS platoon is $23 million in 2022 prices, the cost of each AIM-120 AMRAAM missile (2019 AIM-120D modification) is more than $1.2 million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HESA_Shahed_136
Geranium-2 unit cost $10,000

Big bucks for the US, use a 1.2 million dollar missile to shoot down a 10k drone.
What defense do you have if they send a swarm of drones at your launcher?
GAME OVER, no soup for you.

The amount of debt a war would cost, just to lose anyway is staggering.
I hope you don't plan on winning because the nation would be paying off the war debt for the next century.

Google and the cranks who put up rubbish in it have a lot to answer for; it's the only place some posters get their information from.

Australia in 2022 is more vulnerable to capture or destruction than any Western nation in living memory, except for New Zealand. American failures of leadership and judgment are emerging as serious threats to Australia’s future because we cannot defend ourselves without them.

It is possible for smaller nations to stand up to much
bigger bullies despite seemingly insurmountable odds
as we've witnessed in the case of Russia and Ukraine.

Australia needs bold leadership. It needs a radical
military metamorphosis. It needs to purchase nuclear
powered subs. Our calcified defence forces require a
complete overhaul to respond to 21st century threats.
However there is a growing consensus in Canberra that
Home Affairs Secretary - Mike Pezzullo is the perfect person
to impose these changes. The Prime Minister was right in
keeping him in the job - and has full confidence in him,
as did the former Liberal PMs before him.

There are a few old war surplus drones on OLO, could we not fire them at the Chinese?

Hi Foxy,

I believe the best weapon we have against China is diplomacy, and mutual cooperation, not belligerent nuk powered subs purchased from the Yanks sometime in future on the never never plan, that is costly and disastrous. The Morrison mob wasted 5 billion bucks on French rubbish, then ordered by Uncle Sam to cancel that deal with nothing to show for it, part of the price we have to pay as a US flunky.

Rioting is breaking out all over China since the latest inhumane Covid lockdowns. "Xi step down" is being heard.

Dear Paul,

Did you happen to watch the program on ALBO last night
on "Spotlight," on channel 7?

It gave me re-assurance that our country is in good hands
and much will be achieved under his leadership. He's
nobody's flunky. But he's definitely changed politics in
Australia. Long may this continue.

Hi Foxy,

I missed it, wanted to watch. He's actually surprised me as PM, his work rate is phenomenal. One thing that is important is our relationship with China, a country of 1.4 billion people, by far our largest trading partner, and the major political and economic power in our region. I have a lot of respect for the Chinese people, they have suffered more than we will ever know. As my 'Old Man' said to me 50 years ago; "Son the Chinese owe us nothing, what they have achieved they have achieved on their own."

Democracy needs properly motivated politicians and informed voters. We no longer have either of those requirements in Australia. Politicians are self-serving, and voters are low-information and superficial - just smart enough to be dangerous, or total buffoons oblivious to what is going on in the world and what is driving it. Emoting instead of thinking has produced a shallow, politically illiterate, and vacuous me-generation running on feelings, not thought. The plainly absurd nonsense put about by politicians and mass media has become mainstream belief. Anything is accepted. If their beliefs are challenged, the dills look away. The WEF's "you will own nothing and you will be happy" is inching closer. Government will make the herd's life comfortable if in return it gives the government unfettered power.

Society has allowed the state, more than ever, to intrude into our lives by listening to the threats and fear-mongering coming from politicians.

Anthony Albanese is not self-serving. He believes
that together Australia can achieve a great del
and he is working to achieve that for us. He has
hope and believes in the future. We need to join
the man in this journey. Trying to make things
better for everyone - and not giving up - is better
than complaining and no action - as history has taught us.

Albanese has proved to be the total dill many of us expected. He is too dumb to see the catastrophe that wind & solar are in the UK & Europe, & is still charging down this blind side road to catastrophe for us.

Yes Goff, Krudd & Gillard were all total stuff up people, but Albo is going to cost us much more than any of them, & probably more than the rest of them combined.

God help our grand kids.

Albanese is the most extreme Leftist to ever be PM. Unfortunately, he appeals to other extreme Leftists, who now outnumber middle-of-the-road Australians. They like being 'looked after' by the authoritarians who handed them money as long as they accept house arrest and loss of rights during Covid. The Word Economic Forum and Herr Schwab are gradually infiltrating Western governments. 'You will have nothing, and you will be happy', according to Scwab. He is right about the first bit of the slogan', while he and his acolytes, such as Albanese, will have everything. There are no saviours in the Coalition, either.

There's fewer and fewer people contributing to this
forum. And who can blame them. We can see that there
are the resident contributors who will go against
everything that others express if those views don't
agree with their own set of values, culture, world
views, politics, and behaviour.

This helps explain the generation gap - on different ways
each generation sees the world around them. Still we've got
to face the fact that some people were just born dull, and
they've been losing ground ever since.

Not about Albanese, but an even worse commissar and the poor, cowered Victorians:

"The outcome of the Victorian election can perhaps be explained in one sentence: it’s better to believe the fairy tale that the government can keep you safe, than accept the truth that it cannot".

I don't agree entirely with that author's reason, because the useless Liberals tried to out-left the left; not much of an incentive to change a government. Even so, the Victorians have allowed themselves to be fooled a third time by Dangerous Dan.

The author goes on to say that, "People don’t want to face the fear of thinking there’s actually not much we can do to stop the spread of a virus, or prevent changes in the climate". Now, that is spot on.

Hence the politics of fear. And the Left are masters at it. Labor and the Greens. First principle: scare the shite out of the mugs. Covid and climate change were made for these thugs.

And, the most frightened seem to be the Coalition politicians who, apart from a couple of them, have buried their heads in the sand, where they will leave them for the foreseeable future - when they might find a decent leader and purge the wets.

Andrews is the turd that wont flush

Not as scared as the Liberals, the National Party has announced that it will not support the Voice.

Senator Pocock is supporting Labor's IR reforms!

AC

It's up to the voters to do the flushing; they decided to leave him floating, full of air. Maybe next time. But,there has been some talk of him getting out when he reaches the point where he is entitled to be immortalised in bronze. I know nothing about the other Labor members, but there could be one less odious than Dan who could make the government more bearable for Victorians until the opposition realise that it has to be a viable alternative, not a poor reflection of Labor.

In the meantime, Victoria will continue to pong.

The expression is that strong fences make for good neighbours.

Russia attacked Ukraine because it thought that Ukraine was weak. If they knew ahead of time that they would get so badly beaten they almost certainly would not have tried this imperialistic action.

Having a strong defence should make the cost of attacking Aus too expensive.

Hi AC,

From your above, can we assume Morrison was the turd that DID flush.

SM,

I agree Australia needs a strong defence force, with the emphases on DEFENCE. Not wasting Billions (Morrison wasted $5 billion, future governments will waste $130 billion plus) on a handful of ineffective belligerent nuclear attack submarines.

You silly little man Paul. Nuclear attack submarines are a primary defense weapon. The last thing we with our small population & thus army can afford is to fight a landed force on our soil. Our only worthwhile defense is one that prevents a strong landing force from getting here. Nuclear subs, with their very long loiter time ability is the best available.

At the same time we need really strong anti aircraft & anti missile defense to stop a superior numerically force bombing us into oblivion.

The only thing we can afford to do the first part is nuclear armed nuclear subs.

The best defense against aircraft & missiles we can afford is a strong nuclear armed missile force to use as a deterrent, in the same way that MAD, mutually assured destruction, has protected the world from a nuclear war for the last 70+ years. Nothing like the ability to obliterate Beijing to stop the Chinese obliterating Sydney, although it might be to most Australian's advantage if they obliterated Canberra next time parliament was sitting.

The world has gone MAD Hasbeen.
At any point since WWII the US acted to de-escalate any conflict with Russia.
Now it acts to willfully escalate conflict with them, a nuclear armed nation.
FYI, Sarmat enters service in less than a month.
The US doesn't have hypersonic weapons or adequete defense against them so it's capital ships and homeland is exposed to attack.
Also it currently lacks the industrial base to produce weapons at a rate required for a war of attrition.

I'm happy for us to bolster our defense, but just so long as it is PURELY FOR DEFENSE.

The price, the AUKUS military pact is too high a price in my opinion. The US goes looking for conflict, and when it can't find any it orchestrates them itself.
- That's not someone you want to partner with for defense.
- For them it's about profits as much as anything.

If we abandon the US and instead take a path of neutrality, China 'probably' wouldn't have any need to see us as a threat to them.
I agree it's better to have a nuclear deterrent than not, but only if it's not being given to simply force our countrymen into helping America escalate (start) and fight wars.

If America starts losing they will hang us out to dry, and toddle off back to the other side of the Pacific and leave us to the mess with our neighbours.

Hassy old fella,

"Nothing like the ability to obliterate Beijing to stop the Chinese obliterating Sydney" is that before or after we obliterate Pakistan with nuclear weapons as YOU suggested on the Forum previously. Seems, given the opportunity YOU would make Hitler and Satlin look like a couple of bleeding heart softcocks when it comes to obliterating people. Only about 23 million in Beijing, a bit of a come down from the 200 million YOU would like to knock off in Pakistan. Hassy you must have something against Asians, did they slip you a crook prawn in your 'chow mein' down at the 'Golden Dragon' or something for you to want to murder millions of them.

Village idiot,

The submarines are nuclear powered not nuclear-armed.

Nuclear submarines can remain submerged almost indefinitely and can attack China's ships and aircraft carriers largely undetected which makes an invasion of Aus or its allies very difficult.

China wouldn't be stupid enough to use nukes against Aus as a counter-strike from the US could wipe out most of its population that is clustered in densely populated cities.

Besides, China's economy is in too much trouble at the moment to risk an expensive war that it would most probably lose.

Earlier I stated - "Look what it has done to Ukraine 150k dead."

Viral: EU Chief ‘admits’ Putin’s win; Says 100,000 Ukrainians killed in war, then edits speech
http://youtu.be/EB8GQnRJHWg

My numbers look a bit high, compared to Ursula.
Of course hers numbers probably don't include foreign fighters or the dead left to rot in fields or those left uncollected in Russian held towns and cities.

My numbers were 100K Ukrainians dead around September plus at least 12,000 in October,
Plus all the men thrown into the Bakhmut meat grinder (at least 300 day) and deaths from the other fronts in November, now were in December.

You could probably dial my 150K dead back to 125k if you wanted to be more conservative, but if you consider that the typical ratio of those wounded to those killed in conflict has historically hovered around the 3:1 mark, then we'd be looking at 500k dead and wounded Ukrainians since the war began.

Tweets from above video
"Two Times the Americans stopped negotiations by the Ukrainians.
Two times there would've been peace.
100 thousand Ukrainian dead.
The Americans instigated this war with the intention of destroying Russia's standing as a World Power"

"It cost 100 billion dollars in US Taxpayer funds for 100,000 Ukrainians to die so far.
That's called losing and a poor investment"

Shonky,

I was responding to Hassy and his call for a nuclear get em' first strike idea, he said; "The best defense against aircraft & missiles we can afford is a strong nuclear armed missile force to use as a deterrent" I assume the "we" is Australia, although Hassy could be categorised as a sycophantic traitor to a foreign power with his belief in all things Yankee! He is a trigger happy soul with calls for nuclear obliteration of millions. You may agree, war mongering is what the Coalition and their supports do best.

Pauliar,

Firstly, nuclear-powered subs are primarily defence orientated in that invading Aus would be very difficult if one could not protect the ships used for invasion.

Secondly, Hassy was not advocating a first-strike strategy, but either your mendacity or stupidity misinterpreted it that way.

Finally MAD is an effective defence strategy which is why North Korea, Pakistan, Israel etc spent such a huge amount achieving a nuclear deterrence.

"Firstly, nuclear-powered subs are primarily defense orientated in that invading Aus would be very difficult if one could not protect the ships used for invasion."

I don't think we should get ourselves embroiled in the rest of the worlds problems that an AUKUS defense pact can potentially bring.
- But I have no real issue in taking steps to prevent our country from ever being invaded.

War is changing, the future is in drone warfare.
You can take out a million dollar tank with a 10k drone.

Russians destroy Ukraine Army's self-propelled gun | Onslaught of drone attacks since October
http://youtu.be/9kQfLtoZHtg

What we should be thinking about, is will China leave us in peace for the next 18 years before we actually get the first of these submarines. Lots of things can happen in that time, and I see no evidence that Australia is prepared for any of it, or that we ever will be prepared for any of it. We have been run by self-serving idiots for too long.

ttbn,

After pressure from the US and UK, Aus has conceded that the subs need to be built overseas. This will drastically reduce the total cost and reduce the delivery time.

AC,

I see you are still desperately clinging to the belief that Russia is winning the war in Ukraine. Since we first started discussing this Russia was routed in Kharkiv and massively defeated in Kherson. Even now after about 5 months of massive attacks against the heavily defended Bakhmut Russia has lost 1000s of soldiers and much equipment while Ukraine is now getting close to encircling Kremina.

Russia's economy is beginning to implode. The oil price cap will be coming in and Russia's revenue is dropping while the costs of the war are mounting. Thousands of wives and mothers of "mobilised" men are protesting as 1000s of them are killed on the front lines.

SM

That's good news.

In the meantime, Jim Nolan reckons that the the UK and US will have quite a few nuclear subs in the area from next year on - training Australian crews, and just being around.

See Wong and Marles have been in Washington doing some severe arse licking of a military toady of Biden's, whilst they get their riding instructions for Australia's next move in the Yankee planned war of aggression with China.

Anyone using the term Yankee to describe the Americans is dating himself as a 60s communist lickspittle.

Shonky,

What's your rank in the Reich Citizens (Reichsburger) movement? Oberfuhrer. As a Trumpster you must be most disappointed that 25 of your comrades have been arrested in Germany.

Village idiot,

How do you rank in the greens, are you a low ranking public nuisance or are you on the register with your own ankle bracelet like your mate Doig?