Australia has suffered recently from natural disasters such as forest fires and floods. Many have been rescued from fire and flood. Some have died. Homes have destroyed. With an outpouring of generosity people have been helped to rebuild their lives.

However, could the disasters have been foreseen? Could they have been avoided? Were they necessary?

The Nile periodically flooded. One result of those floods was the development of trigonometry. The Egyptians did not build on the flood plains of the Nile. However, the floods left silt, and the land that had been covered by the floods was fertile. It was necessary to establish the boundaries after the flood waters receded. All markers had been washed away. The Egyptians developed trigonometry to re-establish the boundaries.

There have been floods due to periodic rains. As long as rivers flow and we have seasons there will continue to be flooding. The land that has been covered by floods is valuable for growing crops. We know where floods have been and we have a good idea where floods will be. If we avoid building on flood plains there will be no more disasters due to people being displaced by floods.

The same reasoning applies to forest fires. Periodic fires ravage our forests. They need not be disasters. Some seeds need fire for the pods to burst. After the fires there is regrowth, and the forest re-establishes itself. We can have periodic burnoffs where that is called for. If we avoid building houses surrounded by forest we will have no more disasters due to burning people’s forested retreats.

Most of inland Australia is neither forest, flood plains nor good for farming. It would be wise to restrict building to such land.

Dear David F.,

Thank You for this topic.

What you're suggesting makes perfect sense.
However getting policy makers to pay attention
is more difficult. As is getting people to
co-operate. Most will keep on doing what they've
been doing and expect different results. Which is
insane.

http://thecoversation.com/drought-fire-and-flood-how-outer-urban-areas-can-manage-the-emergency-while-reducing-future-risks-131560

Because of Greens influence it is very hard to clear trees to make houses etc. safefrom bushfires.
I recall the farmer who cleared around his home and was fined by the local Greens dominated council and when those particularly disastrous Victorian fires were over his house was one of the very few still standing.

You might recall when the town of Wytaliba in NSW was wiped out by bushfire, the.community were 100% Greenies and one man died because of their stupidity of living among the gum trees.

Australia has always 'suffered from natural disasters', and it always will. They were 'foreseen'! They have been occurring non-stop. They will continue to occur. Poetry has been written about the vagaries of Australia’s weather ever since white settlement. How much notice do you need!

"Most of inland Australia is neither forest, flood plains nor good for farming". Gawd help us! It's no good for living in, either. Two thirds of Australia is uninhabitable; that's why people live where they do. I'm reminded of something Douglass Murray wrote:

"When people claim that populations are ignorant of (history) they forget that most people are ignorant about almost everything".

Hi Issy,

"Because of Greens influence it is very hard to clear trees" not for leading Gunnie, and Shooters folk hero, Ian Turnbull. Turnbull not only cleared land of trees illegally, he also cleared the land of New South Wales environment officer Glen Turner. In a premeditated act of murder, Turnbull shot dead Glen Turner, the grub was sentenced to 35 years jail, wherein he thankfully died.

Croppa Creek locals were 100% Gunnies until Turnbull opened fire and one innocent man paid with his life.

In a survey, 38% of the gun happy brigade believe MASS SHOOTINGS are a necessary fact to protect GUN FREEDOM. A Shooters Party candidate may be looking for your vote at the next election, beware, be very aware.!

PAUL1405...

C'mon Paulie, stop being a naughty boy and get with the topic, okay? I'll admit, I was 'The Forum's' main offender, always banging-on about my own pet theme for the day, and completely ignoring the Topic at hand.

And truly my boy, I do know and understand how keen you are to emulate me, and many others on this site.

But we both must follow the rules. So for now Paulie be a good boy. I would remind you, we're currently speaking about the wise use of land. Not homicide, nor F/A's, nor death while incarcerated. No, the wise land use.

And it might be best too, that you no longer seek to debate matters pertaining to F/As. A subject of which you possess little or no knowledge whatsoever. So Paulie, its back to your toys for you I'm afraid.

o sung wu,

I replied to Is Mise, you just troll along.

BTW; Try 'Sudso', I believe it's very good at getting blood stains out of uniforms. Don't know about red paint, maybe just give The Major a quick coat all over, and no one will notice.

PAUL1405...

Paulie, you're being naughty again with your ridiculous comments about red paint and a Major in the ARA; the Australian Regular Arm (FYI Paulie) I realise you'd be unfamiliar with the acronym, being as you are, a long term tenant of Cowards Castle. An imposter amongst real men, you'd fall into a deep faint at the first glance you got of blood, rather than the red paint you're so accustomed to using at Cowards Castle.

o sung wu,

I'm not going to dance to your tune, get over it. Following me around this forum like the school yard bully follows a kid around the playground, itching for a fight, does you no good, except cause you frustration, hoping I will fire back at you, so as an old copper, giving me the verbal is useless. You have enough demons in your head, for me to add more would be a crime.

Dear o sung wu,

Because a person is unwilling to go war does not mean that person is a coward. He may think the war is wrong, and he would be wrong for participating in it. An example is Muhammad Ali in the United States. He refused to report to the draft. He lost his title and the chance to continue his career for a number of years. His conscience would not allow him to cooperate with a government that was conducting a war he considered wrong.

He said, "No Vietnamese ever called me n*r." If he had joined the army he probably would have not had to be in combat. Like Joe Louis he probably could have spent his time in the army by fighting in exhibition matches. I had served in WW2 and was too old for Vietnam. If I had been young enough I'm not sure that I would have gone.

Nobody has a monopoly on virtue. Men who go to war may have good reasons. Men who refuse to go to war may have good reasons. It is easiest and most socially acceptable to go along with the crowd.

The whole entire Sahara was fertine not too long ago.
From old maps (as recent as 500 years ago) there were rivers everywhere
Go back a little further there were several large lakes, that were almost inland seas
http://youtu.be/F8eG3C5WDKY

I'm not sure they can fix the Sahara
But we can surely do better than what we're doing now

Farm in NSW central west given new lease on life after 15,000 trees planted in shelterbelts
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-06/nsw-sheep-farmer-plants-15000-trees-on-property-/101123228

Hi there DAVID F...

Although I respect your intellectual abilities enormously, sometimes you're just plain wrong, as you are in this case. It might be wise to let the other side make 'its' own case instead of rushing in to same 'it' all the time. Loyalty can and is misplaced at times Sir. Nevertheless, I respect your right to have an opinion.

Hey o sung wu,
I find this discussion between you and David F interesting.
I've just been watching this program on YouTube, and basically the topic was about state sponsored censorship of western independent journalists who have a Pro-Russia point of view.

(The person interviewed was Eva Bartlett and others, and it was shown that UK Govt sponsored think tanks were providing advice on Russian disinformation / propaganda, for the purpose of writing op-ed hitpieces against these journalists because they don't want us influenced by their opinions)

I've been thinking about the idea of voting and our 2 party preferential system that sees all our votes in the hands of one of the main parties.
What happens if I think both major parties are engaged in censoring press freedom and both are bipartisan, in their pro-UK and pro-US narrative of the war in Ukraine.
What happens if I decide that I can't in good conscience vote for either party, because they're engaged in a form of state sponsored media censorship and both support vilifying Russia, and they don't think we have the right to hear an alternative point of view?
- Meaning they don't respect freedom of the press and don't support the democratic values they claim to?
Do I have any right to not vote or have my vote forfeited so neither of the main parties get it?
- If on a basis of conscience I can't support either party?

o sung wu,

Is your nickname 'vacuum cleaner' by any chance? You sure know how to suck up. Anyway, it makes a change from your regular antics towards me, that is, squealing like a stuck PIG!

Dear o sung wu,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolence expresses some of the ideas I have tried to put forth.

50 years this week a young photojournalist covering the war in his native Vietnam took a photograph and saved the life of a young girl badly burned by an allied napalm attack on her village. The girl, naked and screaming, ran directly toward Nick Ut's camera — and into history, who of my generation can forget that Pulitzer Prize winning photograph.

Her name is Kim Phuc, she was and is an international symbol of that unpopular war, and of the torment inflicted on innocent people in all wars.

Some choose to forget, but the thoughts of those times are still in the dark recesses of their memory. These "heroes" preferring to march down the streets of our cities, chest out, tin pot medals shining in the sun. The insult as someone throws red paint on their snappy dress uniform.

Four comments on the subject, then the it turns to rubbish. Absolute crap. It's no wonder there are fewer and fewer people willing to start a thread.

Dear Paul1405,

A vivid photograph captures one moment in time. We can use it for our purposes. We can use it to differentiate one group of people from another. The photograph you cited shows a naked, little girl fleeing in terror.

I read that an effective sniper for the Red Army was a woman who managed to kill over 300 of the enemy. That woman was also once a little girl. Maybe when she was a child she fled in terror from some menace.

Soldiers and people who flee in terror are both human. They may be the same people at different periods in their life. I was once a soldier. Now I am a 96 year old man with limited capability of putting up any resistance to attack. Perhaps we can feel compassion for everybody.

G'day TTBN...

Of course you're right, we do get sidetracked from the topic at hand. And I must admit, I'm one of the worst offenders. I shall henceforth, try to lift my game.

Some herein mentioned the Nile and the arable land either side of that great river, and purely Egyptian initiative I think. I've never been to Egypt nor seen that mighty river, but my first wife (dec) had. And she having such a keen eye for these things, described all the measures the Egyptian Govt. have taken to ensure there's no interruption to their efforts to render arable, every km of land in and around the Nile delta where the soil is at it's richest with nutrients.

I've always perceived Egypt as an ancient civilisation far removed from modern engineering practices. A flawed assumption really, when you look at the erection of the great Pyramid, several thousand years ago all achieved without cranes and other useful mechanical devices.
Just a thought - Imagine if you will, what a couple of modern Egyptian engineers could do, with harvesting water in the 'dead centre' around Alice Springs? Turn the area into a veritable giant oasis, perhaps?

G'day ARMCHAIR CRITIC...

An interesting observation of yours my friend. There again, you've always managed to untangle much of the argument(s) many of us mount herein, as gospel. Showing it to be, nothing but a lot of baloney, when all's said and done. And your example of bi-partisan voting is a good one I reckon. The result being, we the general public receive only a contrived version of the Ukraine invasion in their efforts to 'dry clean' the facts before the public has time to make their own determination on the rights and wrongs of the invasion.

But it happens here all the time. Sometimes with the full collaboration of the government? A government that should ensure their public receive only unabridged news items. Manipulation at it's extreme. But the notion of 'ethical' reporting has never appeared in any journo's lexicons.

the grub was sentenced to 35 years jail,
Paul1405,
Wasn't it the grub who got shot ?

Indyvidual,

You call a decent man with a wife and young family, a NSW Environment Officer, Glen Turner, callously and wilfully shot dead while doing his job a GRUB! You sir are the GRUB, deserving of condemnation.

Will others comment on your assertion.

Paul1405,
From the information I recall via news etc. this officer hounded the farmer to no end. Not an indication of a decent person ! Nor does decency reflect from supporters.

Indy

"From the information"; from what information is that? Did you sit in court day after day listening to the gruesome details of the actions of a cold blooded killer, who received a 35 year jail sentence. Now you are trying to justify the actions of a psychopathic murder. Its all a figment of YOUR information! Typical of YOU!

Paul1405,
I have sufficient experience with career bureaucrats to automatically warrant being on their victims' side !

Indyvidual,

You are on the side of a psychopathic murderer, that's the side you are on. Your media reports was the defence Turnbull used at his trial. The GRUB got 35 years years in jail, where he fortunately died!

As for your "experience with career bureaucrats" its nothing more than bludging off welfare down at Centerlink, ever since you landed in Australia from wherever you came.

Paul1405,
You're right that I'm not fully versed with that tragedy but I can't help thinking that the "Grub" as you call him probably prevented more such unfortunate tragedies by his sacrifice !

David F said- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolence expresses some of the ideas I have tried to put forth.

Answer- Even Gandhi said that his tactics of Nonviolence wouldn't work everywhere. I read Gandhi's biography from Nehru.

Indyvidual,

Trying to dig yourself out of a hole, first it was; "Wasn't it the grub who got shot ?" meaning the unarmed and unaware a killer was lying in wait for him, Glen Turner. Now you describe the premeditated murder of the environmental officer who was performing his duties, at the hands of a cold calculating killer Ian Turnbull as a "tragedy", but then you go on to claim maybe Turnbull was performing some kind of civic service; "(he Turnbull) probably prevented more such unfortunate tragedies by his sacrifice !" What did Turnbull sacrifice in your view? Unfortunate time in prison!

Indyvidual you really are one contemptible individual. Back in your hole where you belong. From the one you racially vilified as, The Concrete Jungle Bunny.

Paul1405,
If you so enlightened on this case why beat around the Bush, tell us why one's guilty & the other innocent. According to what I've read the Govt bloke was not doing his job at at all, he was hounding the farmer & the farmer had a gutful.
If you ask my opinion I'd say both were as guilty as the other ! The farmer had enough reason to do what he did, I'm not so sure the Govt bloke had enough reason to do what he did.

ps. From the one you racially vilified as, The Concrete Jungle Bunny.
Looks like I wasn't too far off the mark but saying so I'll make a public apology to the bunnies & I'm sure the rats will welcome you with open arms !

Indyvidual,

You should be made a judge, and you could determine guilt or innocence based on you personal predigests, and what you read and hear in the media, there goes the blackfella's for a start, with your degree of racism. We don't need trials, when we've got the likes of you presiding. Oh! the judge and jury with weeks of evidence and argument before them got it wrong in the Turnbull case, you know better from a 30 second grab on the six o'clock news, and add in your prejudice against public servants, and the not guilty verdict is clear. WHAT A JOKE!

Thanks for the information on this issue Indyvidual.

And what "information" are you thankful for CM, certainly not that an innocent family man was cold bloodily shot dead by a psychopath. Now I put you in the same cage as the screwed up Indyvidual.

p/s; your first attempt at deflection from the ramblings of Indyvidual failed, how about you give Indyvidual one of your highly valued KRUMPET awards.

Paul1405,
No prejudice against Public Servants & none even to incompetent or corrupt bureaudroids even if you are one of them judging by your defence of them.
Prejudice is an unfounded & unwarranted preconceived judgement. None of that applies to your argument where the deeds of the Public Officer & his victim or vice versa are known.
No-one in his/her right mind would criticise someone doing their job satisfactorily for their employer-us, the public ! At least I have never heard a single complaint about decent Public servants performing their duties. I hear & read of plenty regarding those who don't perform in the interest of the public.