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The Forum > General Discussion > Roe vs Wade

Roe vs Wade

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With the impeding overturning of the Famous Roe vs Wade judgement in the '70s the rights of women over their own bodies are about to be overturned in the USA.

I personally believe that the rights of women over their bodies must take precedence over the rights of an unborn fetus to a point.

The limit that has been proposed is the point at which the fetus becomes viable on its own. A figure of 20 weeks is a conservative view that at least gives women the choice.

I also believe that this should be taken out of the hands of activist judges and be legislated.

What does anyone else think?
Posted by shadowminister, Sunday, 8 May 2022 9:00:24 AM
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What does anyone else think?
shadow minister,
Let the two people who created that foetus make the decision !
Posted by individual, Sunday, 8 May 2022 12:25:41 PM
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.Opinions are unlikely to have changed since the last time.
.Abortion (except for health of the mother reasons) is just
one more example of the fall of Western civilisation.
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 8 May 2022 12:42:03 PM
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Abortion is such a controversial issue and the debate
will continue for a long time yet based on personal views,
religious views, and personal experiences and wishes.

Personally I could never have an abortion. However I
would not dream of imposing my views on anyone else
not knowing their circumstances or the reason for their
wanting to have an abortion therefore I feel that we
must have laws in place to protect all concerned.

The woman's right of choice - for a safe abortion and
access to medical care. For the child's sake - to place
a time-frame passed which an abortion is not allowed.
For a father's sake - if he wants to help raise the child
he should have a say in what happens to his child. And so
on.

We need laws governing all those things. So no I don't agree
with not allowing the rule of law being abolished or over-ruled.
We need laws to protect all concerned.

In the US the religious fanatics have too much sway. We can only
fight not to allow this in Australia. This is one time when we
should not follow the US.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 8 May 2022 12:55:11 PM
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My apologies. I meant to say that I do not agree
with overturning the law (Roe vs Wade) regarding
abortion in the US. I did not phrase things properly
in my previous post.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 8 May 2022 1:08:38 PM
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Foxy,
I'm not sure what you're smoking.
But to actually bring up the term 'for the child's sake'
- When we are talking about the 'right' to kill them.

Is not only unconscionable, but absolutely abhorrent, and downright disgusting.
I condemn your opinion and you should be ashamed of yourself.

And this - on Mother's Day of all days.

SHAME!
Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 8 May 2022 1:57:42 PM
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Armchair Critic,

Criminalising abortion does not stop abortions
it just makes abortion less safe.

Who are we to judge other people and their
circumstances?
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 8 May 2022 3:01:07 PM
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Opponents of abortion try to silence women's voices
through the politics of shame. This tactic is to try
to bully women into feeling shame about abortion.
These people feel if they can do that they can control
the conversation. This fosters the easy spread of
misinformation.

We don't need modern-day inquisitions. What we do need is
more information on reproductive health for women and
the reduction of stigma.

For someone who is pregnant and looking for help, that
can make all the difference.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 8 May 2022 3:19:22 PM
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Foxy,
I'm not without fault by any means.
I once had a girlfriend I got pregnant but she didn't find out until after we broke up and she moved interstate.
And I heartlessly just sent her the money so she could go and get an abortion.
- And if I had've taken responsibility more in the situation she might've kept it.
On another occasion I took a female friend to the abortion clinic.
(She was not my girlfriend nor was I ever in a sexual relationship with her)

I'm not necessarily saying I'm against abortion;
And I'm not without fault, in sending a woman to an abortion clinic.
But I'm disgusted that you used the term 'for the child's sake'.

My girlfriend at the moment has a 7 year old daughter.
She's the most amazing well-rounded and well-adjusted kid I know.
- But she was the product of rape whilst my girlfriend was passed out drunk, living in a half-way house.

So don't try to squirm your way out of it.
What you said 'for the child's sake' was heartless, and just plain wrong.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 8 May 2022 6:07:13 PM
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The overturning of Roe v Wade, if it happens, doesn't mean that women lose the ability to get an abortion. It simply moves the decision about the laws surrounding the abortion back to the states. For the Supreme Court its a constitutional issue, not a moral issue.

The catalyst for this decision is a law in Tennessee. If Roe v Wade is overturned, the Tennessee law will then apply. What is that law? That abortion up to 15 weeks is legal. So no backyard abortions as the activists claim. Just laws similar to those that apply in places like France.

Liberal states like New York and California will pass even more liberal abortion laws. More conservative states will have more restrictive laws. That's all that the decision means.
Posted by mhaze, Sunday, 8 May 2022 6:41:52 PM
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AC,
I suggest thar you read Foxy’s post again, in its entirety; I initially paused at “…for the child’s sake.” but continued reading and her post makes sense.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 8 May 2022 7:23:59 PM
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Hi Is Mise...
Ah... I see;
Thank-you for correcting me.

Dear Foxy,
I'm so sorry I misread your post.
Please accept my full and sincere apology.
I believe I really messed up good and proper this time.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 8 May 2022 9:41:52 PM
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You know in all the years I've been a member of this forum, maybe 8 or more now;
- I have been rude and blunt on occasion.
But I don't think I've ever once messed up like that before.
Now I feel ashamed, sorry again Foxy.

I've had quite a stressful week to be honest.
And I'm still just finally getting over this bad lingering flu.
- Apparently everyone's getting it lately.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 8 May 2022 9:56:04 PM
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Hi Foxy,

A very good post on your part, well done AC for admitting fault. Even though I am a Progressive, I find the concept of a "woman's rights" on abortion, as opposed to the "rights of the unborn" difficult to come to terms with. Abortion on demand, I disagree, a blanket ban on abortion, I also disagree. The answer lies somewhere between, I recognise the necessity of abortion on medical grounds, and safety is paramount, so driving abortion underground should not be accepted. My Old Man's first wife died from a backyard abortion back in the 40's.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 9 May 2022 7:10:11 AM
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Abortion is violence against women, and the death of child, and the woman recognizes this for the whole of her life. America, through Planned Parenthood aborted over 60,000,000 infants 78% African- Americans since it was legalized. Women need to take responsibility for their body that includes their sexual activity. Abortion has become a birth control measure, rather than taking sexual responsibility for one's body.
Posted by Josephus, Monday, 9 May 2022 8:20:59 AM
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Jose'

We have some common ground there. I don't believe abortion should be used as a "birth control method" or the unborn treated as a pure "economic unit". There us no simple solution, and its not a case of one size fits all. There are grounds for abortion, medical and social, just as there are grounds for the protection of the unborn. Education is most necessary to avoid unnecessary abortions. When I discuss this with progressive women, they generally act with anger, I try to understand their position, but find it somewhat selfish.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 9 May 2022 9:13:10 AM
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Hi Armchair Critic,

Thank You for your apology.
It was lovely of you to do that.
Abortion is such an emotional topic for so many
people.

I'm sorry that you're not feeling well.
We had a bit of drama last night.
We went to our local pub with the kids for
a Mother's Day dinner - and my husband had
a fall. A bit of drama , bruising, and bleeding.

It's a Mother's Day we won't forget in a hurry.

Anyway, again - Thank You for the apology.
It is appreciated.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 9 May 2022 10:07:18 AM
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Hi Foxy,
It's just a bad lingering flu, and quite a lot of people seem to be getting it these past few weeks.
Symptoms were runny nose, a little bit of a sore throat and coughing up phlegm and a mild headache, no real fever or throwing up or anything, you feel like your at 50% at best and it's kind-of lingering, seems to take a while to get over it.
- Though I haven't been sick with a cold/flu for quite a few years; this was the first time since at least the start of the pandemic that I've been sick.

My housemate also got it, he did a RAT test and it came up negative.

I'm really sorry to hear about your husband, I'd hate to think that I threw your day off with my comment or anything like that.
I hope he's getting some good care and that he recovers asap.
My sincere best wishes for a speedy recovery.
And again, I'm sorry I got things wrong.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 9 May 2022 10:41:56 AM
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The Democrats are losing their minds and taking their protests to the homes of the Federal Court judges threatening them.
Posted by Josephus, Monday, 9 May 2022 11:46:29 AM
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Hi Armchair Critic,

Take it easy - this flu thing is going around.
We've all had it - mine lasted for a week and
really wore me down.
So don't try to do too much. Thanks again for the
apology. It was appreciated.

My husband has to have some x-rays done so hopefully
they'll re-assure us.

Take care.
___________________________________________________________________

Hi Is Mise,

I forgot to Thank You for you post to AC - drawing his attention
to my post and suggesting he read it in its entirety. Thanks for doing that.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 9 May 2022 12:52:35 PM
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http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-truth-about-fetal-tissue-research/

http://www.science.org/content/article/abortion-opponents-protest-covid-19-vaccines-use-fetal-cells

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/what-fetal-tissue-research-why-it-important-medicine-n1014481
Posted by Armchair Critic, Tuesday, 10 May 2022 4:25:08 AM
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There's always some angle that benefits the bankers not people.

http://econofact.org/the-mystery-of-the-declining-u-s-birth-rate

They probably want more people because low population growth affects their growth and profits

http://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/12/us-population-grew-in-2021-slowest-rate-since-founding-of-the-nation.html

The U.S. population grew at a slower rate in 2021 than in any other year since the founding of the nation, based on historical decennial censuses and annual population estimates.

"The U.S. Census Bureau Vintage 2021 Population Estimates released today show that population grew only 0.1% and that the COVID-19 pandemic exacerbated the slower growth the country has experienced in recent years."

There's always some other BS agenda - other than the one they are telling you.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Tuesday, 10 May 2022 5:07:38 AM
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Democracy is stupid.
You have one bunch of idiots do one thing
And then the other bunch of idiots does something else...

Trump administration restricts fetal tissue research
http://www.science.org/content/article/trump-administration-restricts-fetal-tissue-research

NIH reverses Trump-era restrictions on fetal-tissue research
http://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01035-6

"The US National Institutes of Health will remove limits on government scientists and cancel a controversial grant-reviewing ethics panel."

Let's cancel the deal with Iran
Lets restart the deal with Iran
It goes on and on...
Posted by Armchair Critic, Tuesday, 10 May 2022 5:17:21 AM
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I'm yet to hear of a single anti-abortionist who will put their money where there mouth is and volunteer to financially provide for the raising of an unwanted or medically challenged child but all they seem to do is to go home after sentencing complete strangers to their life-long fate and feel better about themselves and hopefully put some more supposed Jeezo-bucks into their Heavenly Bank Account.

I saw a proposal that all males should undergo compulsory reversible vasectomies and only be entitled to have children once they meet certain parental and financial criteria, but that would remove their freedom of choice over their bodily autonomy. Outrageous!

When it comes to women, the USA is becoming more like the Taliban every day.
Posted by rache, Friday, 13 May 2022 12:56:03 AM
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We lived in the US for over ten years.
Our children were born there. However I don't
recognize the US that it is today. And I am so glad
that we decided to come back to Australia.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 13 May 2022 10:13:02 AM
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Americans have been taught to express their emotions and they are governed by them rather than exercising self-control. They see the use of violence as justified if a cause counters how they feel. Even Kamala Harris is encouraging pro-choice to fight - she believes against Trump supporters. I am involved in the support of 'Students for life" in raising support for young mothers who choose to give birth to their child. They operate on American Campuses to help pregnant girls, in opposition to "Planned Parenthood" looking for income from the sale of aborted infant body parts.
Posted by Josephus, Friday, 13 May 2022 11:04:01 AM
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